Capability Architecture: Building Leadership that Holds

00:00:12 RK Prasad

Welcome to eLearning Champions podcast.

00:00:15 RK Prasad

And your resume was very, very, is very, very interesting because I think almost from 2000 onwards, you were self-employed.

00:00:27 RK Prasad

You were helping different companies and different industries.

00:00:34 RK Prasad

So I find that very, very interesting, which means you have seen different scenarios, different environments, different industry dynamics.

00:00:46 RK Prasad

But your core interest and your passion is leadership capability development, which I think is a is a great topic and a great subject to pursue.

00:00:59 RK Prasad

So how did you how did you kind of

00:01:03 RK Prasad

We are into it.

00:01:04 RK Prasad

Was it right from the beginning you, you know?

00:01:09 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:01:10 Stuart Andrews

No, not right from the beginning.

00:01:12 Stuart Andrews

I actually started off as a developer.

00:01:14 Stuart Andrews

So, you know, it's a big change.

00:01:17 Stuart Andrews

It's a big change.

00:01:17 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:01:18 RK Prasad

You are a computer science graduate.

00:01:20 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:01:20 Stuart Andrews

Yes, exactly.

00:01:21 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:01:21 Stuart Andrews

And fun times.

00:01:24 Stuart Andrews

But I think I think I discovered quickly that I enjoyed working with people more than computers.

00:01:32 Stuart Andrews

And funny enough, I'm enjoying working with AI now more than that.

00:01:38 RK Prasad

So a complete circle.

00:01:40 Stuart Andrews

Complete circle.

00:01:41 Stuart Andrews

That's right.

00:01:41 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:01:42 Stuart Andrews

So it's good fun.

00:01:43 Stuart Andrews

But yeah, look, I've been leading teams for a long time and I've had my ups and downs in terms of learning how to get the best out of people.

00:01:57 Stuart Andrews

And I think through that process of educating myself, I realized that there's an opportunity to help others as well and share those learnings with others along the way and say, well, what makes a successful transformation for an organization that's undertaking hundreds of millions of dollars of investment?

00:02:16 Stuart Andrews

And it comes down to people.

00:02:18 Stuart Andrews

And so leaders need to understand that there is a way to get the best out of your people.

00:02:24 Stuart Andrews

And that's ultimately what leadership capability is all about.

00:02:31 RK Prasad

So I would like to talk to you like a lay person, not a leader or a management professional, because most of L&D people have really not held positions

00:02:54 RK Prasad

you know, line positions, functional positions, they were always staff positions.

00:03:00 RK Prasad

So I would like to probably ask you some very fundamental questions.

00:03:07 RK Prasad

How do you differentiate leadership and management?

00:03:13 Stuart Andrews

Oh, there's plenty of infographics on that.

00:03:14 Stuart Andrews

In fact, I may have done one myself on this many years ago, and there's just a constant battle between the two, but

00:03:24 Stuart Andrews

I think fundamentally we need to move away from the semantics of what defines a manager versus what defines a leader and understand that organisations need managers and they need leaders.

00:03:40 Stuart Andrews

And fundamentally we are trying to help people who are both managers and leaders to focus on

00:03:50 Stuart Andrews

the challenge.

00:03:51 Stuart Andrews

What's the challenge at hand?

00:03:52 Stuart Andrews

And ultimately it comes down to how do I get people to come together in a psychologically safe environment to discuss the challenge.

00:04:04 Stuart Andrews

Now, whether I'm having the hat or title of a manager versus I am a senior VP in an organization or a C-suite leader,

00:04:13 Stuart Andrews

the crux of the challenge hasn't changed.

00:04:15 Stuart Andrews

We still need to come together and discuss whether or not we've got a cybersecurity threat, whether we are addressing customer problems in the right way, whether we are listening to our internal staff about the challenges that we have on culture.

00:04:30 Stuart Andrews

The challenge is still the same.

00:04:32 Stuart Andrews

So we sometimes get caught up on, well, hang on a second, am I a manager, and that's not really my responsibility to be thinking about culture.

00:04:42 Stuart Andrews

Or am I a leader and I am responsible for setting strategic goals and objectives at a very high level and I'm not gonna be interested in dealing with the customer support tickets that are coming in, right?

00:04:55 Stuart Andrews

And so this is why we end up in this constant debate of manager versus leader discussion.

00:05:04 Stuart Andrews

But yeah, coming down to where I think you're trying to get to is to really

00:05:12 Stuart Andrews

Understand that doesn't matter what sort of hat I'm holding.

00:05:17 Stuart Andrews

I am there to create an environment for everyone to be able to share their thoughts, express their opinions and and focus on the data and what the data is actually telling me.

00:05:30 RK Prasad

OK, So what I understand from what you said is there is no compartmentalization, so to speak.

00:05:39 RK Prasad

So a manager cannot just say that, look, I just do planning and organizing and all that stuff.

00:05:46 RK Prasad

And the leader can't say, I'll just give a strategy.

00:05:51 RK Prasad

What Stephen Covey says, managers cut the number of trees, but the leader tells this is the wrong forest.

00:06:00 RK Prasad

That is a very simplistic way.

00:06:02 RK Prasad

And I tend to agree with what you're saying that it is very difficult to delineate both of them.

00:06:10 RK Prasad

Because at whatever level, even if he's a first level manager, supervisor or a C suite CEO who is managing other C level people, he is dealing with people and he's solving problems and challenges.

00:06:27 RK Prasad

And as a leader, he has to create an environment where people can openly come out with their opinions or dissent.

00:06:38 RK Prasad

and come with a common solution.

00:06:40 RK Prasad

Did I understand you correctly?

00:06:41 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:06:43 Stuart Andrews

It doesn't take away, though, from the fact that a manager has specific responsibilities that are different to a leader's responsibilities.

00:06:50 Stuart Andrews

So I'm not challenging the concepts that the responsibilities are different.

00:06:55 Stuart Andrews

And I think you are saying the same.

00:06:57 Stuart Andrews

What we are saying, though, is that the people are at the heart and centre of whatever it is that we are discussing.

00:07:05 Stuart Andrews

And so even if I'm still a junior level supervisor, I still need some leadership training, coaching and education to get the best out of those that I'm supervising.

00:07:20 RK Prasad

So when we are dealing with people, we are dealing with our own selves, our own psychological selves.

00:07:33 RK Prasad

What do you think is the relationship between the ability to manage one's emotions, you know, the emotional intelligence, ability to understand my emotions, your emotions, and be able to appropriately communicate?

00:07:55 RK Prasad

How do you, obviously it's a no brainer saying that yes, a leader needs a lot of that,

00:08:01 RK Prasad

But how does one develop that?

00:08:03 RK Prasad

Because people come from their own cultures and subcultures of their families.

00:08:11 RK Prasad

So what do you think about that?

00:08:16 Stuart Andrews

Look, I remember this from, and many people do this already, is to try and focus on the famous three circles, which is, look, the circle of control initially, right?

00:08:31 Stuart Andrews

what are the things that I can control myself?

00:08:36 Stuart Andrews

And I think that was a mindset change for me when I first read the book, right?

00:08:42 Stuart Andrews

It's just about trying to think about what's within my area that I have complete authority and control over.

00:08:52 Stuart Andrews

And then start to understand that broader dynamics, like if I'm working in an organization with a culture

00:09:00 Stuart Andrews

is not as what I was expecting, that's completely outside of my control.

00:09:06 Stuart Andrews

There are things in between that I can potentially influence between my zone of what I can really control, how I show up in a meeting, what do I say, when do I speak, when do I not speak, that kind of wisdom inside, that's my control versus

00:09:23 Stuart Andrews

the influences I'm relating to others in various meetings, topics, agendas, whatever it may be.

00:09:31 Stuart Andrews

There are areas where I am on show and I'm on display through all of my actions and interactions.

00:09:37 Stuart Andrews

And eventually that will feed into the further circle of the things that are outside of my control.

00:09:44 Stuart Andrews

So I think it's a mindset change, just how we look at every situation.

00:09:51 Stuart Andrews

and helping each other to say, hey, look, just relax.

00:09:56 Stuart Andrews

This is something that's way outside of your control.

00:09:58 Stuart Andrews

How about you focus on what it is that you can control?

00:10:02 Stuart Andrews

And that hopefully helps people just reorient no matter where they've come from, no matter their families, the upbringing, the challenges that they face to the younger age or what they may be going through at the moment to just focus on what can I do?

00:10:20 RK Prasad

So

00:10:22 RK Prasad

Do you think that is the crux of leadership ability or there are other aspects?

00:10:31 Stuart Andrews

No, I think there are other aspects of course, but what do you, sorry, where are you heading with this in terms of what are you thinking?

00:10:43 RK Prasad

What I'm thinking is leadership seem to do mostly with people.

00:10:51 RK Prasad

people's mindsets, people's perception of psychological security and trust quotient, right?

00:11:03 RK Prasad

So it looks like, please correct me if I'm wrong, that leadership is more soft than hard.

00:11:13 RK Prasad

You know.

00:11:13 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:11:13 Stuart Andrews

Traditionally, that's how people saw it.

00:11:15 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:11:16 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:11:16 RK Prasad

So

00:11:18 RK Prasad

you can't take a piece of paper and make a plan the way you can't repeat that in leadership.

00:11:27 RK Prasad

So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to define in your words what leadership comprises before going to the fact, how do you develop that capability?

00:11:40 RK Prasad

How do you coach?

00:11:42 RK Prasad

Because that is your core.

00:11:44 RK Prasad

But I would like to make it very clear, what do we mean by leadership?

00:11:49 RK Prasad

What is the scope of that?

00:11:55 RK Prasad

Does it make sense?

00:11:57 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, look, I think you touched on something which was maybe triggering me, the soft versus hard skills, right?

00:12:05 Stuart Andrews

So let's just tackle that quickly for a moment.

00:12:11 Stuart Andrews

Dealing with challenges and dealing with different personalities is not simple.

00:12:18 Stuart Andrews

And many people, in fact, many people shy away from it because they say, look, I'm an individual contributor and I'm just going to focus on working with a computer.

00:12:28 Stuart Andrews

I'm going to be a developer, for example, and I'm just going to stick to it.

00:12:31 Stuart Andrews

But actually you end up growing.

00:12:32 Stuart Andrews

You end up becoming a great developer and you've got some great talents there that you need to share with others that now start to join the team.

00:12:40 Stuart Andrews

And all of a sudden you've never learnt and practised the art of effective feedback or the ability to communicate with your peers because you've always just worked by yourself.

00:12:52 Stuart Andrews

So I look at someone like that and I go, well, how can they be a great leader?

00:12:58 Stuart Andrews

And to answer your question about what makes them.

00:13:00 Stuart Andrews

And I think there is a few things here.

00:13:03 Stuart Andrews

And a while back, a few years ago,

00:13:07 Stuart Andrews

did a bit of research and a bit of study in this, and I tried to develop what I would call the five Cs of an effective leader, right?

00:13:17 Stuart Andrews

And I put them down to these five, and that is making sure that you always have creativity, courage, curiosity, and come back to that example of what I was just shared, like that curiosity of why did someone say that, why did they interact in that particular way?

00:13:37 Stuart Andrews

Why did they not do the task that was due on that particular date?

00:13:43 Stuart Andrews

And as humans, we sometimes easily fall into the judgment pattern and maybe think the worst rather than think the best or look at the class.

00:13:53 RK Prasad

What else can it mean?

00:13:55 Stuart Andrews

Sorry?

00:13:56 Stuart Andrews

What else can it mean?

00:13:57 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:13:58 RK Prasad

What else can it mean?

00:13:59 RK Prasad

We generally example on the first perception or whatever.

00:14:06 Stuart Andrews

Exactly.

00:14:07 Stuart Andrews

Exactly.

00:14:07 Stuart Andrews

And then the last two is about confident humility, right?

00:14:11 Stuart Andrews

So be confident in your capabilities, but also be humble to be corrected, to listen to others and what they've got to say.

00:14:18 Stuart Andrews

They've got a different perspective.

00:14:19 Stuart Andrews

And the final one, collaboration.

00:14:21 Stuart Andrews

So for me, these are the five core, you know, components that make an effective leader.

00:14:28 Stuart Andrews

And then you can talk about

00:14:30 Stuart Andrews

coaching it or, you know, helping build the capability around it and the structures that support it.

00:14:37 Stuart Andrews

So yeah, come back to that effective leader and what it actually means.

00:14:41 Stuart Andrews

It doesn't matter where you are in the organization, you need to work on all of these five.

00:14:48 RK Prasad

So let us just recap.

00:14:51 RK Prasad

It is first is curiosity.

00:14:55 RK Prasad

And

00:14:56 RK Prasad

Then creativity.

00:14:58 Stuart Andrews

I had created creativity.

00:14:59 RK Prasad

Creativity.

00:15:01 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:15:01 RK Prasad

So curiosity is to delve deeper into the causes which are not obvious.

00:15:11 RK Prasad

You dig a little deeper and see what else it could mean.

00:15:14 RK Prasad

Why did he say that?

00:15:16 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:15:17 RK Prasad

Does does he mean this reading between the lines?

00:15:21 RK Prasad

The second thing is creativity.

00:15:24 RK Prasad

Gives you the ability to come out with.

00:15:29 RK Prasad

Good solutions.

00:15:32 RK Prasad

And then the third one you said is courage.

00:15:35 RK Prasad

Communicate courage.

00:15:38 Stuart Andrews

I say courage.

00:15:38 RK Prasad

Courage in your mind.

00:15:40 RK Prasad

Courage to take feedback which is not very pleasant.

00:15:46 Stuart Andrews

That's right.

00:15:48 RK Prasad

You're right.

00:15:48 RK Prasad

And then you also said communication.

00:15:52 RK Prasad

No, you said confidence, confidence, humility, confidence, which is and then collaboration balanced by humility and then collaboration.

00:16:03 RK Prasad

Excellent.

00:16:03 RK Prasad

Now we have a framework of understanding what exactly and if a person develops these these circles.

00:16:16 RK Prasad

then he's on his way up the leadership competence.

00:16:21 Stuart Andrews

Absolutely.

00:16:21 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:16:22 RK Prasad

Correct.

00:16:24 RK Prasad

So I was just looking up some research of how much organizations are spending on leadership training and I found in Australia, New Zealand as well as in Europe and America, it is more or less the same percentage of

00:16:41 RK Prasad

You know, anything between 15 and 30% of the total training budget is spent on leadership training in one way or the other.

00:16:52 RK Prasad

But my own experience dealing with a large number of companies and during the time when I worked in other companies, one of the greatest deficiencies in organizations as well as in any kind of government

00:17:08 RK Prasad

schools, educational universities, that is the biggest deficiency.

00:17:15 RK Prasad

So all that money and effort and initiatives they're taking doesn't seem to yield great, you know, compared to, let us say, computer literacy.

00:17:28 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:17:29 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:17:29 RK Prasad

Or for that matter, now AI.

00:17:32 RK Prasad

or handling a cell phone.

00:17:35 RK Prasad

I'm from India and there are so many people who are illiterate, but they handle all these things very well.

00:17:43 RK Prasad

But when it comes to these circles, and let us forget about government, let us come to corporate organizations where they want their people to lead.

00:17:56 RK Prasad

Do you agree that it is not very successful, the training part of it?

00:18:01 Stuart Andrews

Yeahc .

00:18:02 Stuart Andrews

And you'd be surprised.

00:18:03 Stuart Andrews

Maybe some of you are surprised for me to say that.

00:18:05 Stuart Andrews

And that's why I've developed a whole new model for this.

00:18:10 Stuart Andrews

And this is based on the feedback of working with clients.

00:18:14 Stuart Andrews

And I ask them specifically, why do you think mine works?

00:18:18 Stuart Andrews

And that is all about what I talk about now.

00:18:20 Stuart Andrews

It's called capability architecture.

00:18:21 Stuart Andrews

Because the simple answer is this.

00:18:24 Stuart Andrews

I can work with one person.

00:18:27 Stuart Andrews

and they themselves can try and improve.

00:18:29 Stuart Andrews

But if the system around them is not improving together, then what can they do?

00:18:35 Stuart Andrews

Okay?

00:18:35 Stuart Andrews

Yes.

00:18:36 Stuart Andrews

And that's, you know, it's not rocket science.

00:18:40 Stuart Andrews

So you have to have a complete system, have to have a complete solution.

00:18:45 Stuart Andrews

And that's what many organisations are or have been doing for a long time.

00:18:50 Stuart Andrews

For example, we do an offsite, we're going offsite and everyone's feeling really good.

00:18:56 Stuart Andrews

But then we come back and it's back to normal.

00:18:59 Stuart Andrews

And all the things that we learned and we learned some great stuff.

00:19:02 Stuart Andrews

We got this amazing speaker to come and they told us about this and they really inspired us and they created awesome momentum.

00:19:09 Stuart Andrews

But then it comes back to the organization and then over the course of the next 24 to 48 hours, the friction starts again and the challenges pop up and we've forgotten.

00:19:20 Stuart Andrews

how to do that right?

00:19:21 Stuart Andrews

How to how to take that action from from that inspiration out of that out of that workshop or offsite.

00:19:29 Stuart Andrews

We have other leadership development programs.

00:19:33 Stuart Andrews

like you might know, you put in some amazing e-learning programs and modules, and people do it.

00:19:37 Stuart Andrews

But then

00:19:38 Stuart Andrews

You find out, well, hang on a second, you just learned how to communicate better, right?

00:19:43 Stuart Andrews

You went through this thing.

00:19:45 Stuart Andrews

But then when I see you in the heat of the moment inside a steering committee meeting, I don't see that you're communicating well.

00:19:54 Stuart Andrews

I see aggression, I see negativity, I see judgement, I see all sorts of traits that are not what's inside this e-learning module.

00:20:06 Stuart Andrews

So what's going on?

00:20:07 Stuart Andrews

And so again, I may be oversimplifying, but that's what I'm talking about.

00:20:13 Stuart Andrews

It is an operating system because you need to look at, and for a long time I used to speak to CEOs about this, which is you are rewarding the wrong behaviors.

00:20:24 Stuart Andrews

You are rewarding the young potential salesperson who's awesome at getting you the sales, hits the numbers, but at what cost?

00:20:37 Stuart Andrews

What cost is going on inside the organisation to achieve that?

00:20:41 Stuart Andrews

For example, cultural behaviours.

00:20:44 Stuart Andrews

What are they not doing that's in line with the culture values that you've put up on the wall that people are supposed to be embracing in everything that they do?

00:20:53 Stuart Andrews

And so it's a system to make sure that everything works together to achieve that outcome that you wanted to invest in.

00:21:06 RK Prasad

So can you can you elaborate on this on that system?

00:21:10 RK Prasad

What is this ecosystem which will which will enable a person to operate without hindrance from outside?

00:21:21 RK Prasad

Because what you're saying is absolutely absolutely right.

00:21:24 RK Prasad

I have myself experienced leadership training programs.

00:21:29 RK Prasad

going outside and you know, conflict resolution or dealing with difficult people, you know, communication.

00:21:38 RK Prasad

Yeah, we feel all charged and all that.

00:21:41 RK Prasad

And then we go, the boss says, OK, you keep your learning to yourself.

00:21:45 RK Prasad

Let us get the job done.

00:21:46 RK Prasad

I want the targets to be met.

00:21:49 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:21:50 RK Prasad

So just like the the circles, the six circles which you.

00:21:55 RK Prasad

have been explaining.

00:21:57 RK Prasad

Can you also explain what is this capability architecture?

00:22:02 Stuart Andrews

Sure.

00:22:03 Stuart Andrews

It's founded on the core premise of designing customized solutions that then you can embed them in an organization and scale them.

00:22:15 Stuart Andrews

And the question comes down to how, and that is based on my 5D model.

00:22:19 Stuart Andrews

So you have discovery,

00:22:22 Stuart Andrews

You go through that process of actually discovering what's actually going on in the organization.

00:22:26 Stuart Andrews

It's not just throwing a coach at them or throwing some sort of standardized practice or learning or what have you.

00:22:34 Stuart Andrews

You have to discover what's going on inside that particular organization.

00:22:38 Stuart Andrews

And every organization will have different discovery components.

00:22:43 Stuart Andrews

You have to build the desire.

00:22:45 Stuart Andrews

You have to define it.

00:22:47 Stuart Andrews

OK, in terms of the change and what what does that actually look like and then delivering it and driving it through into the organization and they have supporting pillars.

00:22:56 Stuart Andrews

So for example, discovery has an alignment system and that alignment system is very, very important because it's all based around an architecture of unity.

00:23:07 Stuart Andrews

So when I talk about leadership architecture, within the architecture realm, there is different components that make up the architecture.

00:23:14 Stuart Andrews

And this is the first one.

00:23:16 Stuart Andrews

You're looking at how do we unify people around what it is that we're trying to achieve.

00:23:21 Stuart Andrews

And it's no longer just about coaching.

00:23:23 Stuart Andrews

And this is where it starts to be different because you're merging worlds, you're merging coaching, you're merging consulting, and you're merging advisory with it because you need to be looking at, like you just shared,

00:23:36 Stuart Andrews

You're gonna come out of the training like this and there's gonna be a leader that says, oh, but we've got these particular targets that we have to achieve.

00:23:43 Stuart Andrews

Well, when I come in and I say, well, can I ask you this?

00:23:46 Stuart Andrews

Does every other leader in the organisation sign up to the same targets or you've got competing targets?

00:23:52 Stuart Andrews

Now we've got competing targets or we've got different targets.

00:23:54 Stuart Andrews

Well, that's a broken alignment system.

00:23:57 Stuart Andrews

You're broken.

00:23:58 Stuart Andrews

Because no matter what coaching we do right now, it's not gonna work.

00:24:03 Stuart Andrews

Well, why is it going to work?

00:24:04 Stuart Andrews

Well, how can it work if I'm going to be coaching you in a particular leadership behavior that's then going to contradict someone else's leadership behavior?

00:24:12 Stuart Andrews

Because you can both going to come into a meeting and we're going to talk about, say, how to deal with conflict.

00:24:18 Stuart Andrews

And the challenge is you shouldn't actually be talking about conflict on that particular point because you're not even in alignment to begin with.

00:24:26 Stuart Andrews

So it's a mismatch between.

00:24:29 Stuart Andrews

thinking that we need coaching when we actually need to align first on what is it that we're here to achieve?

00:24:36 Stuart Andrews

What's our strategy?

00:24:37 Stuart Andrews

What's our purpose?

00:24:38 Stuart Andrews

What's our vision?

00:24:40 Stuart Andrews

Where are we going?

00:24:41 Stuart Andrews

And then the coaching layer is overlaid, but instead we just throw coaching at it or we throw training solutions and in the hope that we're gonna fix the underlying systemic problems.

00:24:53 Stuart Andrews

Does that make sense?

00:24:54 RK Prasad

Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:56 RK Prasad

But some of these conflicts, I was just wondering, listening to you, that let us take production as a function and marketing.

00:25:07 RK Prasad

You know, way back I worked for a fertilizer company.

00:25:13 RK Prasad

And as you know, it's a process industry and you can't just stop the factory.

00:25:19 RK Prasad

So it'll be running and it'll be producing and

00:25:24 RK Prasad

sales and marketing.

00:25:25 RK Prasad

They have seasons, especially in India.

00:25:28 RK Prasad

We have two seasons and offtake will be only during those seasons.

00:25:32 RK Prasad

So rest of the time it's all, you know, put in the warehouse.

00:25:39 RK Prasad

Now there is always a tension between these two.

00:25:45 RK Prasad

OK, marketing and sales or between line functions and HR for example.

00:25:52 RK Prasad

That guy says I want so many people.

00:25:55 RK Prasad

He says no, you manage with.

00:25:56 RK Prasad

So there's always a tension between these.

00:26:00 RK Prasad

So do you mean trying to reduce those tensions or you're talking about some other alignment?

00:26:09 Stuart Andrews

No, I I I think I I think just in that particular example that's a good that's a good case study around there is fundamental misalignment at a.

00:26:22 Stuart Andrews

senior executive level because and sorry and not just because it's then going to manifest itself in behaviours that are going to impact cultural values that we've set right okay so you agree so come back to this misalignment of this if we are not aligned on how we are

00:26:50 Stuart Andrews

spending our budget, OK, then you're going to end up with these types of tensions, right?

00:26:57 Stuart Andrews

Because there is just no buying at the start to talk about where are we going to invest the money and then the silos that we have created in these organizations, they also create these wrong competition.

00:27:11 Stuart Andrews

You know, like it's not, we're not in competition with each other, right?

00:27:15 Stuart Andrews

And this is.

00:27:18 Stuart Andrews

You know, Patrick Lencioni's five dysfunctions of a team is brilliant here because we talk about collective results at the top of the pyramid.

00:27:26 Stuart Andrews

Many people don't understand what it actually means.

00:27:30 Stuart Andrews

And we think we talk about, we think we are all in it together, but we're actually not.

00:27:34 Stuart Andrews

And in the example you shared is the classic.

00:27:37 Stuart Andrews

You have someone who says, okay, but you

00:27:40 Stuart Andrews

me this is my particular target.

00:27:41 Stuart Andrews

This is what we're trying to do.

00:27:42 Stuart Andrews

I need the extra resources to achieve it, otherwise we can't.

00:27:47 Stuart Andrews

And so it comes back down to misalignment around what is it we're trying to achieve, where are the priorities and what is realistic with the resources that we have.

00:27:56 Stuart Andrews

And so that the teams can come together and say, well, hang on a second, I've got some spare capacity over here.

00:28:01 Stuart Andrews

Maybe we can share that capacity, cross train, upskill, do whatever, and then you can have them.

00:28:06 Stuart Andrews

I don't really need them at the moment.

00:28:08 Stuart Andrews

So it's not necessarily

00:28:10 Stuart Andrews

Coming back to curiosity, it's not always the solution to just, oh, I just need more resources.

00:28:17 Stuart Andrews

There should be a mechanism in this example to go back into the organization and work as a collective unit.

00:28:25 RK Prasad

Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.

00:28:30 RK Prasad

Usually people in in these kind of distinct functions, they

00:28:38 RK Prasad

generally try to protect their tough, right?

00:28:44 RK Prasad

They, they want to wield their power.

00:28:50 RK Prasad

Uh, sometimes it is a cultural thing.

00:28:52 RK Prasad

Sometimes it's an individual, uh, who is more, you know, like, uh, want to wield power and control.

00:29:02 RK Prasad

Uh, I worked under such bosses.

00:29:04 RK Prasad

And yet there are other bosses who hardly speak, who allow others to speak.

00:29:11 RK Prasad

And what you were saying, that psychological safety.

00:29:17 RK Prasad

But then in the same company, there can be one general manager who is a very aggressive person.

00:29:22 RK Prasad

It doesn't allow anybody to talk.

00:29:24 RK Prasad

And if the other guy, even though he's very good, if he's a little diffident, he just shuts up.

00:29:31 RK Prasad

So this power struggles keep going on.

00:29:34 RK Prasad

So who will be the referee in such kind of a situation?

00:29:38 RK Prasad

You mean the senior level CEO?

00:29:43 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, I think at all times, if the buy-in is not from the top, so we sometimes have seen where

00:29:52 Stuart Andrews

these kinds of issues are outsourced to HR and HR is the one that has to be the police and they're the ones that have to try and deal with the complaints that come after it and all the challenges that come after it.

00:30:03 Stuart Andrews

But I actually think it's a collective, you know, C-suite job to make sure that everyone is behaving in the right way.

00:30:12 Stuart Andrews

And if one of our cultural values is to make sure that we are better listeners, as an example, then

00:30:19 Stuart Andrews

It's up to CEO down to make sure that in meetings everyone is respecting each other and giving that space for everyone to talk.

00:30:30 Stuart Andrews

It's not just a particular function to manage from the side.

00:30:35 Stuart Andrews

It's not going to achieve the results.

00:30:39 RK Prasad

Before I move to the next part, I want one clarification here and this is very personal.

00:30:45 RK Prasad

This is about our own company CommLab.

00:30:50 RK Prasad

Both Aisha and I came from management background and we worked in different companies before we started this company and our immediate leadership team, we try to the best of our abilities to be, you know, provide that psychological safety and empower them.

00:31:09 RK Prasad

Of course, we still learn because we realize that we are not as

00:31:17 RK Prasad

you know, as open as we think we are.

00:31:21 RK Prasad

And OK, it's always a self discovery.

00:31:24 RK Prasad

But what happened, which is very, very disturbing as well as intriguing, is that down the line, the same person behaved differently with his subordinates.

00:31:39 RK Prasad

So it is not percolating down.

00:31:43 RK Prasad

So

00:31:44 RK Prasad

Do you think, did you see this kind of phenomena in your with your other customers?

00:31:49 Stuart Andrews

Yes, absolutely.

00:31:50 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:31:51 Stuart Andrews

So I think what you're talking about is they behave in one way in various settings and they're completely different in other sets.

00:31:58 Stuart Andrews

Would you agree?

00:31:58 RK Prasad

Right.

00:31:59 Stuart Andrews

Especially with the subordinates.

00:32:01 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, I've seen this.

00:32:02 Stuart Andrews

I've seen this pattern before and I think very simply the answer is to reprimand.

00:32:09 Stuart Andrews

It's not acceptable.

00:32:11 Stuart Andrews

You know, this is

00:32:13 Stuart Andrews

This is a this is a comment potentially on integrity.

00:32:17 Stuart Andrews

And if integrity is one of the key values in your organisation, then this is a key failure on integrity because you are one person in front of me, but a different person in front of others, right?

00:32:28 Stuart Andrews

So you're not true to yourself and and your identity is is is a challenge.

00:32:32 Stuart Andrews

There's some sort of challenge and we need to identify what is causing this.

00:32:38 Stuart Andrews

And back to my point earlier, which is the curiosity piece, I would encourage you to be curious around why is this happening and asking questions around.

00:32:46 Stuart Andrews

And sometimes you will find that you can help coach and help that particular leader as long as they're willing to understand and accept it's a weakness.

00:32:59 Stuart Andrews

Let's find out what the root cause is and then we look to improve.

00:33:02 Stuart Andrews

Great.

00:33:03 Stuart Andrews

But if you know they they don't want to accept it and then we have to choose to say, well, what what are we going to do?

00:33:10 Stuart Andrews

We're going to uphold our values.

00:33:13 Stuart Andrews

This may not necessarily be the best place for you.

00:33:15 Stuart Andrews

You know, this is what we expect from our leaders.

00:33:17 Stuart Andrews

Simple.

00:33:20 RK Prasad

OK.

00:33:21 RK Prasad

So can you please continue with the architectural, you know, the other pieces, please?

00:33:28 Stuart Andrews

So, you know, we have, we talked about discover, we talked about having an alignment system and how important that unity at the top, right?

00:33:36 Stuart Andrews

And then we go into this next point, which is identity actually, right?

00:33:40 Stuart Andrews

So we're looking at how we, what's our desire and mapping everyone's desires to a common

00:33:50 Stuart Andrews

Common landscape and what I mean by that is not everyone wants to be a leader.

00:33:54 Stuart Andrews

Not everyone wants to move.

00:33:56 Stuart Andrews

They want to potentially be you know that I love what I'm doing and I don't wanna be you know one day leading a team of 200, 300, 400, but whatever it may be right.

00:34:05 Stuart Andrews

So we have to make sure that we have.

00:34:09 Stuart Andrews

the right mapping for everyone so that, you know, and under this you have all your different succession planning and all of that kind of stuff, but you're making sure that everyone's identity is not being challenged on every day, right?

00:34:22 Stuart Andrews

That I don't have to do something different or something else is expected from me, but I just can't.

00:34:27 Stuart Andrews

So they're operating within their zones of comfort generally, right?

00:34:32 Stuart Andrews

Then we have one of my favorite ones is execution cadence.

00:34:37 Stuart Andrews

OK, so how do we execute, which is the definition?

00:34:40 Stuart Andrews

How do we actually get things done in the organization?

00:34:43 Stuart Andrews

And this is a big pillar and this is all about turning strategy into momentum.

00:34:50 Stuart Andrews

And this is where we will uncover and unpack a lot of the tensions and the frustrations and.

00:34:57 Stuart Andrews

Things like, you know, well, why is this report required for me every two months?

00:35:01 Stuart Andrews

You know, I'm just sick of it.

00:35:02 Stuart Andrews

Can't we just do it once every year?

00:35:04 Stuart Andrews

They don't even look at it.

00:35:04 Stuart Andrews

They don't even, so that kind of friction that's burning with employees and organisations comes out through this execution cadence system.

00:35:15 Stuart Andrews

And then we look at capability pathways as part of the actual delivering of capability architecture.

00:35:22 Stuart Andrews

And that then says, okay, well, we've done all of our discovery, we've looked at,

00:35:26 Stuart Andrews

Making sure that everyone's desire is set in the right place.

00:35:29 Stuart Andrews

So their their own personal ambitions with how the organisation wants them to grow and succeed.

00:35:35 Stuart Andrews

We've looked at how we get things done in the organisation and under our execution system.

00:35:41 Stuart Andrews

OK, so we've unpacked all that.

00:35:43 Stuart Andrews

Now we move into how do we get the right capability so that we have, you know, a Formula One car basically everywhere.

00:35:53 Stuart Andrews

So that's mapping these capabilities throughout and how they can grow throughout the organization.

00:35:59 Stuart Andrews

And then the last one is about cultural reinforcement.

00:36:02 Stuart Andrews

So as an organization grows, as it scales, as it has changes, as transformation comes in, as they embrace AI, cultural reinforcement is so important.

00:36:15 Stuart Andrews

And without it, that's where we start to see

00:36:19 Stuart Andrews

you know, the ramifications of certain events in an organization that take place not over days, but months and years.

00:36:27 Stuart Andrews

For example, a massive cyber security event can cause a CEO to resign, can cause executives to have massive performance challenges.

00:36:42 Stuart Andrews

But at the end of the day, if you trace it back,

00:36:45 Stuart Andrews

to the months and years before it, you will find that the root cause was something to do with broken culture.

00:36:51 Stuart Andrews

And I'll give you an example and that is I've seen in a large scale enterprise, you know, talking about 10,000 plus employees where something like this has happened.

00:37:03 Stuart Andrews

I can't go into the details, but for years they've been going on a journey of cutting labor, right?

00:37:13 Stuart Andrews

And for years they could see that this had negative morale because it was.

00:37:22 Stuart Andrews

It was done in a very bad way.

00:37:23 Stuart Andrews

It was always done in a particular time of the year, but people didn't necessarily know who and what department will be impacted.

00:37:31 Stuart Andrews

It was done in.

00:37:34 Stuart Andrews

The list goes on in terms of how it was being done.

00:37:37 Stuart Andrews

And you could see and everyone could talk about it that it's all about just trying to fabricate the numbers to just make sure that it shows up on a particular date in the year that, hey, they're doing fine, profits are good and all of that kind of stuff.

00:37:51 Stuart Andrews

So that spirit of real trust, even though it was one of the key cultural values, everyone could see through it amongst many other values that were put up on the wall.

00:38:03 Stuart Andrews

And so as people's jobs were gone or lost, they didn't have a culture that talked openly and transparently about the knowledge transfer.

00:38:17 Stuart Andrews

So how do we make sure that before someone's made redundant, we are extracting every little piece of information that we can, especially when you're dealing with systems that have been there and processes that have been there for many years.

00:38:32 Stuart Andrews

And so what happens is even you have that cultural layer broken, all of the trust has dissipated and then this, you know, this builds up over time, right?

00:38:44 Stuart Andrews

So a lack of trust here has led to a forgotten process, forgot to a certain procedure that's no longer documented.

00:38:50 Stuart Andrews

No one knows about it.

00:38:52 Stuart Andrews

And then eventually it shows up two years later in a cybersecurity disaster.

00:38:56 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:38:56 Stuart Andrews

And then we go, oh, hang on, say, what, what was what happened?

00:39:00 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:39:01 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:39:02 Stuart Andrews

Cultural reinforcement is so important.

00:39:06 Stuart Andrews

If every single change that happens, and as an organization gets bigger and bigger, this becomes even more of a challenge.

00:39:17 RK Prasad

It looks like a lot of hard work.

00:39:19 RK Prasad

As a CEO, when I'm listening to you and trying to apply to my small company of 150 people, I still think that, oh my God, there is so much work to do.

00:39:30 RK Prasad

Somewhere you mentioned that capability has to live inside the business, not beside it.

00:39:37 RK Prasad

So as L&D professionals, how can we, I mean as L&D fraternity, how can we bring about this capability inside the business?

00:39:51 RK Prasad

How do we get a buy-in from the senior people and how do we make sure it permeates into

00:39:59 RK Prasad

entire organization, as you said, large organizations with 10s and thousands of people spread across many geographies.

00:40:08 RK Prasad

Looks like a mammoth task.

00:40:10 RK Prasad

And also when listening to you, I feel that the leadership you're talking is very closely intertwined with culture.

00:40:20 Stuart Andrews

Absolutely.

00:40:21 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:40:22 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, definitely.

00:40:24 RK Prasad

So when you when you say capability should live inside,

00:40:28 RK Prasad

Who should be doing this leadership training, coaching or creating this environment where leadership will thrive?

00:40:40 Stuart Andrews

Well, I have to start with the...

00:40:42 Stuart Andrews

Sorry, go on.

00:40:44 RK Prasad

Go on, go on.

00:40:46 RK Prasad

That's what I...

00:40:46 Stuart Andrews

I think it just has to start with the executive leadership team always.

00:40:50 Stuart Andrews

It starts there with them and they start to undertake it and then it moves through layer by layer throughout the organisation.

00:40:58 Stuart Andrews

They set the example.

00:41:01 RK Prasad

So in usually in cases like this, do we do we get external experts like yourself or do we do it ourselves?

00:41:15 RK Prasad

How does it the model work?

00:41:17 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, I think there's definitely a level of getting external help to support you and then teaching you how you can then stand up on your own and do this.

00:41:28 Stuart Andrews

Because you can't expect a organization that has 10,000, 20,000 to have these kinds of systems in place for every single team and department.

00:41:40 Stuart Andrews

It would be too draining.

00:41:41 Stuart Andrews

But there are more economical ways of being able to do this.

00:41:46 Stuart Andrews

in a in a structured fashion.

00:41:47 Stuart Andrews

And, you know, I think it's about, like anything, you have concepts of train the trainer and this is coach the coach and etcetera.

00:41:56 Stuart Andrews

So you have, you know, you you start small.

00:41:59 Stuart Andrews

It doesn't matter where you are up to at the moment, but you don't have to undertake.

00:42:03 Stuart Andrews

Like you said, it's a mammoth task if you're in a big organization.

00:42:06 Stuart Andrews

And yes, it is difficult, but you have to understand that you are you're dealing with people.

00:42:12 Stuart Andrews

And you need to make sure that you are investing in your people.

00:42:16 Stuart Andrews

And if you do want the outcomes and the what we call hard numbers, then you have to recognize that it comes down to people.

00:42:23 Stuart Andrews

And if you treat them well and look after them and you invest the time and energy with them, you will get more than 10 times the results that you're looking for.

00:42:35 RK Prasad

So is there any way in your own experience that

00:42:41 RK Prasad

you can kind of show in hard numbers that this kind of initiative has worked and satisfied all the metrics, financial and non-financial.

00:42:52 RK Prasad

You know, like how happy my people are, what is my turnover or attrition?

00:42:59 RK Prasad

Am I the most preferred, you know, company to work for?

00:43:08 RK Prasad

There are non financial things you know what people write on Glassdoor.

00:43:13 RK Prasad

All these things are indication and of course the financial numbers.

00:43:17 RK Prasad

Does your model also have a piece on evaluating how well this is done?

00:43:24 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, there is an ROI calculator that can be put together around evaluating a baseline measure of where you are today and then where you are after running a successful program.

00:43:38 Stuart Andrews

Definitely, yes.

00:43:40 Stuart Andrews

Because it touches on so many areas of the business though, you have to make sure that everyone's embraced it in the sense that there is.

00:43:51 Stuart Andrews

Look, the moment we start customising and picking and choosing and trying to dictate certain terms, that's the moment where you start to get a lot of variability.

00:44:00 Stuart Andrews

That's from my experience.

00:44:01 Stuart Andrews

And a good example of that is if I come into an organisation and I say, listen, you need to make sure that you have the behaviours as part of performance development plans.

00:44:14 Stuart Andrews

And an organisation says, no, we're not going to do that, then I'm going to back away from any guarantee.

00:44:20 Stuart Andrews

Very simple.

00:44:21 Stuart Andrews

Because I'll guarantee you this, that if you put in your cultural values as part of your performance development plans, then I'll guarantee to work with you and get you the results that you need.

00:44:32 Stuart Andrews

Very simple.

00:44:33 Stuart Andrews

Because you have to do it the way I've structured it to be able to get and for me to be able to stand behind any guarantee.

00:44:41 Stuart Andrews

And that's how I operate, right?

00:44:43 Stuart Andrews

And that's how it's very simple.

00:44:45 Stuart Andrews

You do what I tell you to do, basically.

00:44:49 Stuart Andrews

This is a studied, well, put together a program that has customizations for you and will be tailored for you, absolutely.

00:44:59 Stuart Andrews

But you need to follow the instructions.

00:45:00 Stuart Andrews

It's like the same thing.

00:45:01 Stuart Andrews

You go to a doctor,

00:45:03 Stuart Andrews

And you want antibiotics for your infection.

00:45:06 Stuart Andrews

You can't then tell them, oh, well, hang on a second.

00:45:08 Stuart Andrews

I'm going to take half the dosage, or I'm going to adjust this.

00:45:11 Stuart Andrews

I think I'm going to take a different medication for that.

00:45:15 Stuart Andrews

Go for it.

00:45:16 RK Prasad

Go for it.

00:45:17 Stuart Andrews

But you have this particular challenge.

00:45:20 Stuart Andrews

And if I think I can solve it for you, then this is the way to solve it.

00:45:25 Stuart Andrews

And you take the prescribed medication and off you go.

00:45:30 RK Prasad

Right, right.

00:45:31 RK Prasad

Makes makes a lot of sense with a very fair, you know, expectation.

00:45:35 RK Prasad

Generally, Stuart, if you take a typical company, I'm not talking about the size, but generally a company for you to initiate this and empower the senior people to take it down.

00:45:52 RK Prasad

How long do you think it'll take?

00:45:54 RK Prasad

I mean, is it behavioral?

00:45:56 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, behavioral change takes a long time and you know you'll get some immediate short term wins within three to six months.

00:46:05 Stuart Andrews

You'll see some dramatic transformations and adjustments within three to six months, but you need to be looking at at least a 12 to 24 month program depending on the size of your organization to really embed long lasting change.

00:46:18 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:46:22 RK Prasad

OK.

00:46:22 RK Prasad

So do you work on site or do you work remotely?

00:46:29 Stuart Andrews

I do a combination.

00:46:30 Stuart Andrews

So any any of the on site initiatives as part of the program are, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, and especially if I'm running certain aspects of it, then I'm there present.

00:46:42 Stuart Andrews

Otherwise, you know, there's I've got a team, a global team that can can be positioned depending on various types of engagements.

00:46:52 RK Prasad

So you have licensed practitioners of your model.

00:46:56 RK Prasad

Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:58 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:46:58 RK Prasad

Oh, oh, wow.

00:46:58 RK Prasad

Great.

00:46:59 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:46:59 RK Prasad

Great.

00:47:00 RK Prasad

That's that's very nice to hear.

00:47:01 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:47:03 RK Prasad

OK.

00:47:04 RK Prasad

So one last question is about what is the hot topic nowadays that is AI?

00:47:10 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:47:12 RK Prasad

And how how does it gel with this aspect of, you know, leadership?

00:47:21 RK Prasad

What we have been talking about, is it as a distinct or a different aspect of it and nothing to do with this?

00:47:32 RK Prasad

Or is there an overlap?

00:47:34 RK Prasad

Can we use it?

00:47:37 RK Prasad

How do how do they work together or?

00:47:40 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, so I've recently.

00:47:41 Stuart Andrews

Yes, it's a good point.

00:47:42 Stuart Andrews

So I'll talk about my own personal experience.

00:47:44 Stuart Andrews

I I don't know what others are doing, what have you, but I've gone and.

00:47:47 Stuart Andrews

Taken a 12 month journey on building my own digital twin.

00:47:51 Stuart Andrews

So that then has all of my frameworks, methodology, trust source over 25 years.

00:47:56 Stuart Andrews

So people are buying Stuart's capability architecture effectively inside a digital twin, right?

00:48:03 Stuart Andrews

So that becomes a more economical.

00:48:05 Stuart Andrews

So coming back to your point, which is OK, how does a 10,000 place organization, there's now a solution that is much more economical for that to take place, OK.

00:48:14 Stuart Andrews

to then scale that and you get greater results this way.

00:48:17 Stuart Andrews

Whereas in the past you're only able to control results to a certain point.

00:48:21 Stuart Andrews

You know, if your executive leadership take it or your certain managers and and and so forth and very controlled in the way your results, but you can actually now control the results across the whole organization if you wanted to.

00:48:33 Stuart Andrews

The other thing I want to say on this is that.

00:48:37 Stuart Andrews

You know, I've had first hand experience in dealing with an organization in the past that has had

00:48:43 Stuart Andrews

Members of this organization use the generic ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, it doesn't matter what it is.

00:48:51 Stuart Andrews

And it's had massive ramifications.

00:48:52 Stuart Andrews

In fact, it nearly lost a $12 million contract for an organization because a junior person listened to what ChatGPT had to say to it.

00:49:03 Stuart Andrews

And that really, for me, reinforced the fact that I was on the right journey for me personally.

00:49:09 Stuart Andrews

And that is just making sure that the information people get out of my digital twin is self-contained inside on my knowledge.

00:49:19 Stuart Andrews

Because the advice that they were given was something very generic, or it was something that was swayed towards more mental well-being.

00:49:28 Stuart Andrews

For example,

00:49:30 Stuart Andrews

One of the advices was, you know, you need to lock out your diary for, you know, at least four hours and have no interruptions.

00:49:40 Stuart Andrews

Now as a junior rocking up into a technology company to to shut up for four hours and not have any interaction, it's a bit of a disaster.

00:49:52 Stuart Andrews

And so in this case, it led to a CEO having to be involved to rectify the situation and hopefully regain the trust of this third party who was trying to sign a deal with them because they were nowhere to be found.

00:50:09 Stuart Andrews

They were on the way and they didn't respond.

00:50:11 Stuart Andrews

So you could see the kind of impact.

00:50:15 Stuart Andrews

Do the generic AIs give you some good advice?

00:50:18 Stuart Andrews

Absolutely.

00:50:21 Stuart Andrews

It does require people who have significant experience, in my opinion, to be able to know when to apply that advice, who should apply that advice, and yeah, which situations that it can be applied in.

00:50:41 RK Prasad

So this digital twin you're talking about, is it a platform?

00:50:46 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, for me it's a mobile app.

00:50:48 RK Prasad

You download the mobile app.

00:50:50 RK Prasad

So is that also offered to people, I mean to organisations as a standalone or is the part of your intervention too?

00:51:04 Stuart Andrews

So that's a good question.

00:51:05 Stuart Andrews

So I'm actually just in the process of rolling it out.

00:51:09 Stuart Andrews

So for me it's going to be offered in two forms.

00:51:14 Stuart Andrews

There was a beta version offered to organizations, but now the full rollout is going to be the potentially individual leaders who want to use it themselves on a monthly subscription.

00:51:24 Stuart Andrews

And then yes, as part of any of the enterprise packages or audits or or programs, it's it's part of part of the part of the offering.

00:51:35 RK Prasad

So is it all already launched?

00:51:38 Stuart Andrews

It's available on the app right now, yeah.

00:51:40 Stuart Andrews

So you can sign up if you want, but it's in waitlist mode.

00:51:44 Stuart Andrews

I'm going to be, you know, just looking for a different approach at the moment from a marketing strategy.

00:51:52 Stuart Andrews

But yeah, if you were to sign up, you would be on waitlist until November 3rd, I think it is.

00:52:00 RK Prasad

Okay.

00:52:00 RK Prasad

What's the name you said?

00:52:02 Stuart Andrews

Just my name, Stuart Andrews.

00:52:04 RK Prasad

Okay.

00:52:05 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, the product's called capability AI.

00:52:10 RK Prasad

Oh, wow.

00:52:11 RK Prasad

So you developed it.

00:52:13 RK Prasad

I mean, the conceptualization is yours.

00:52:15 Stuart Andrews

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:52:17 RK Prasad

OK, great, great.

00:52:19 RK Prasad

So it has been great speaking with you because in spite of all my experience, I think there are a lot of things I learned.

00:52:29 RK Prasad

I learned how closely leadership and the ecosystem

00:52:36 RK Prasad

of culture, how closely they are interdependent and what I also found out that why do most of leadership training fail?

00:52:49 RK Prasad

That is trying to go and solve something which you have absolutely no understanding where the alignment is, where you know the common goals are and how it goes top down.

00:53:02 RK Prasad

So it's a very comprehensive

00:53:06 RK Prasad

Body of work, I should say is to work.

00:53:09 RK Prasad

And if you haven't written a book, I think you should write a beautiful.

00:53:15 RK Prasad

No, thank you.

00:53:16 Stuart Andrews

Not not about this, but I have written a book here.

00:53:18 Stuart Andrews

I've written a book about how to lead a successful transformation.

00:53:21 Stuart Andrews

Yeah.

00:53:22 Stuart Andrews

But yeah, this it sounds like this one has needs its own.

00:53:26 Stuart Andrews

Thank you.

00:53:26 RK Prasad

Yes, this is this a beautiful session and I am really grateful for your time.

00:53:34 RK Prasad

Because most of leadership training is done piecemeal.

00:53:38 RK Prasad

As you said, it's a band-aid.

00:53:42 RK Prasad

It is not a real holistic thing, facing some very difficult questions.

00:53:49 Stuart Andrews

You know, when you sit down and I've done a lot of learning in marketing and what have you, because it's never been my forte, you know, I had to think about it up until a few years ago, and I really embarked on the coaching journey and so forth.

00:54:03 Stuart Andrews

And I discovered that we all have to use our gifts and talents in the right way.

00:54:09 Stuart Andrews

And there's a very unique opportunity here for me to bring, you know, consulting, advisory and the coaching together.

00:54:18 Stuart Andrews

And I think

00:54:19 Stuart Andrews

changing transformation, and customers generally say to me, look, you seem to have a tool for everything, right?

00:54:26 Stuart Andrews

And it's not that you know it all, but you know enough to be able to dissect and I think diagnose is the key.

00:54:36 Stuart Andrews

So it's a specialist, right?

00:54:37 Stuart Andrews

Like the specialist doctor, it's a best analogy here.

00:54:41 Stuart Andrews

to say, actually, this is not a coaching problem.

00:54:43 Stuart Andrews

You have something else here.

00:54:45 Stuart Andrews

And so the challenge is the traditional coaches, unfortunately, have not been able to do that in the past, right?

00:54:52 Stuart Andrews

So because they don't, as you said it at the beginning, they didn't have this experience on leading teams and so forth.

00:54:58 Stuart Andrews

So there is experience there that is now gelled into how to get the best out of your people.

00:55:06 RK Prasad

Thank you very much, really appreciate.

00:55:10 Stuart Andrews

Thank you.

00:55:11 RK Prasad

Your time and it has been wonderful.

00:55:14 RK Prasad

Thank you very much.

00:55:15 RK Prasad

You have a great evening.

00:55:16 Stuart Andrews

You too.

00:55:17 Stuart Andrews

Take care of yourself.

00:55:18 Stuart Andrews

Thank you.

00:55:18 Stuart Andrews

Bye.