The CEO mindset: A Conversation with Andrea Petrone

CommLab Podcast with Andrea Petrone

00:01:06 Speaker 2

Hello there. Welcome back to the E-Learning Champion podcast. Let's explore the emerging trends, strategies, and inspiring success stories that transform the landscape of digital learning. In today's episode, we're taking a look inside the CEO mindset, 10 questions on world-class leadership. Understanding the CEO mindset is essential for modern learning and development professionals, as it helps align training initiatives with organizational goals. This alignment not only boosts leadership capabilities but also fosters a culture of continuous learning, empowering L&D professionals to contribute to a resilient and high-performing workforce. Joining me today for an intriguing session is Andrea Petrone. Andrea is a trusted advisor to Fortune 500 companies and high-growth businesses worldwide. With over 2 decades of experience, he has helped CEOs and leadership teams navigate challenges and drive high performance, particularly during times of uncertainty. Having lived and worked in seven countries, Andrea has valuable insights into leading international teams. His transition from corporate leadership to coaching has made him a top-ranked executive coach, guiding over 250 leaders to achieve breakthrough results in leadership and organizational culture. As a keynote speaker and podcast host of the World Class Leaders Show, he inspires thousands with his insights on leadership and cultural change. Andrea is also launching WCL21, a global platform for CEOs to connect, learn, and drive performance together. Welcome onboard, Andrea. We're glad to have you speak to us today.

00:02:58 Speaker 1

Hi, Sherna. Thank you so much for your kind introduction. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Thank you for inviting me.

00:03:05 Speaker 2

Now, before we dive in, dear listeners, make sure you'll never miss an episode packed with valuable tips by subscribing to us. Now let's lead the way.

Andrea, you've spent decades working with CEOs and senior leadership teams. From your perspective, what separates good leaders from world-class leaders today?

00:03:28 Speaker 1

Yeah, so...just with this question, we can have a conversation for an hour, even more than an hour. But if I summarize in my experience what I noticed working with leaders, what's the main difference is, I would say there are three things that are really different.

One is the clarity about what aspiring future needs to be created for the entire organizations. I wouldn't take that for granted or as an easy thing because most of the leaders, they're out there, they're trying to bring a vision that's just an incremental improvement of what is already existing. What I see in world-class leaders, they create something that is really compelling for people. It's a vision that has a long-lasting impact on society, on next generation. In other words, it's about legacy. So that's one key element.

The second element is, they have created a culture where people are so much included in this conversation about bringing that vision to life. They are included, they're part of, they're excited about it, they're part of the solution. So, they are really people leaders by bringing the people to the core of that vision, of that aspiring future.

And 3, it's about integrity. The best leaders, the world-class leaders, they do exactly what they say, and they try the level of integrity across the entire organization because that is the leverage for performance. Performance happens in organizations, so achieving the vision where people are clear, what they have to do, what they say matters, and what they do is what they say. That is, to me, the most powerful way to set up yourself as a world-class leader.

00:05:16 Speaker 2

Wow, interesting. Now let's talk about change. What are the biggest struggles new or seasoned CEOs face in leading their companies through complexity and change?

00:05:32 Speaker 1

One is clearly connected to what we said. Without clarity about what's the transformation, what's the vision, what's the compelling vision is to be created, they're not going to really drive the change for the entire organization because it's not clear where they're heading to.

Another critical element is what we call the driving engagement execution. Most of the CEOs I worked with, they really struggle to get the most out of their people. They complain, they say, oh, my people, they're not able to bring my vision to life. They're not able to execute, they're not engaged. To me, that is probably the missing link of many leaders. That's the major struggle, a major challenge. Many CEOs, they say that to me in a coaching conversation, in another meeting that we have, how can they get the most out of the people, how can they step up and without being as a CEO, too much inside of day-to-day, so they need to drive everything? That is a shift that is required and is clearly one of the major challenges for transforming an organization.

00:06:41 Speaker 2

Wow, interesting. You often talk about mindset and performance in leadership. What are some non-negotiable habits you see in the best CEOs that you've coached?

00:06:54 Speaker 1

First of all, I would say as a piece of context, we need to align with the fact that mindset is really the only drive for success. I know everybody talks about mindset, but the way we talk about mindset is like having a positive mindset or having a growth mindset, having an attitude for, it's all valid. But what I'm referring to when I talk about mindset is the ability to shift your perception and shifting other people's perception. When people start to see something different, they can start to operate in a very different way. That is the leverage for something different. Many leaders really live in a mindset where everything is fixed. Everything has to be that way. One perception is always the truth, the only truth. When you operate in that way, you're not able to see different colors in what is in front of you, you cannot see an opportunity out there. So, there are a number of limitations that become your own belief in order to achieve something different.

So, if you really want to disrupt your company, if you want to have success, you have to be willing to consider the idea of thinking and seeing something different for yourself first, and then drive that sort of shifting in your people. Because your people are all human beings. They will be driven by the same perception or other perception that might be limiting belief in what they can produce. When people are operating from a limitation, how can they achieve something different, how can they make new actions? That is the shift that is required. It's a paradigm shift. If that happens, you have no idea, Sherna, how many incredible things can be happening made by leaders. The great enterprises, the great resources, the things that we didn't consider were possible, they're just a product of a conversation with possibility, but people really started to see something different.

00:08:59 Speaker 2

Coming to your podcast, the World Class Leaders Show has featured top executives from across industries. What are some of the most powerful leadership lessons you've learned from your conversations?

00:09:14 Speaker 1

There are many, many conversations. At the moment, at the time of this recording, we have in your podcast also, you really understand the importance, the power for preparation, for getting the right people in the conversation, right? So, we run 200 episodes. It's quite a long time since we started the show. And during that time, I've been incredibly surprised and delighted about the quality of leaders that we invited, the quality of the conversation. And I can tell you, given that the people that we interview normally are CEOs, CEOs of people that have a critical role in shaping the future of society, we go really deeper inside of the world.

What does it mean leading and living a life as a leader, as a CEO? And you will be surprised about how many things they share that are less related to process, strategy, planning, or financial return. That is kind of a given. What they're sharing with us, it's a great leadership lesson, IS how can you lead an organization when you're not clear what's the right direction to take?

How can you lead an organization when there are so many wins against you, and you don't know what to do about it?

When there is so much pressure coming from your board, pressure from the expectation that people have.

These leaders, they are human beings. Now, you might say, because there's an ongoing endless conversation about, Well, the CEOs are paid so much, so they should be able to do X by its head.

Well, that's one way of seeing things, and I'm not saying right or wrong, but what people tend to disregard is the fact that these leaders are human beings and they have their own internal challenges, struggles, lack of confidence, thinking how can I lead this organization with all the pressure? How can I stay calm and confident when things are not going right?

All these internal tensions and struggles and challenges, they are top of mind for people, but they don't necessarily share it. They don't share it openly because they don't want to, they can't. Inside of that is an implication of their mental and physical health. What are the implication of this pressure to their life, to their family, to their relationships?

That is really some of the things that people they don't consider is the implication of all of that to them as individuals.

So you will be surprised if you have an opportunity or you want people in the audience to listen to the podcast, you will see how vulnerable these leaders are, sharing openly what they're going through. It's just fascinating because it just give you a different lens, different view about a CEO, about their life, which again is not normally something that comes in the headlines, in the social media, et cetera, because we're always very negative or very brutal or very biased about the CEOs, overpaid, a lot of benefits, all of that. In some cases, it's totally right, but there is just a different side that is worth considering. And that's what shows up in this conversation.

00:12:48 Speaker 2

Many CEOs say strategy execution is their biggest frustration, like you mentioned earlier. Often, CEOs have a complaint that their teams are not able to bring their ideas to life. So why do so many organizations fail at this? And how do you help leaders close that gap?

00:13:09 Speaker 1

Many, many, many organizations are facing the same challenge. That is one of the major constraints of many CEOs and leaders, and it's valid. And what I think is my own interpretation, having done a lot of work in this area, is people either are not compelled or inspired by that vision, that strategy needs to be created or they're not clear. They're not clear how they can bring that strategy forward.

One very common gap in all the strategic conversations that happen in organizations is the ability for people to understand if that is where we are going, what's going to be our contribution? What's going to be our role?

People, most of the time, feel like they are not clear on what they have to do, what is expected from them, and how they can support and contribute to the execution of that vision or the strategy.

And the third element, which is much more critical because it has such an important implication to the entire culture of the organization, is people. They are unfortunately not engaged and disconnected, so they don't want to contribute. They don't feel like that, they're disconnected.

Sherna, probably you are aware. I have a very, very large following based on LinkedIn. I'm one of the major creators, so a lot of people connect with me and send me daily messages about whether a post resonated with them. And most of my posts are about engagement, culture, feelings, right?

You have no idea how many people send me a message, saying, Sorry, I cannot make a comment here. I cannot like what you say because I'm concerned about how my employer will react. Because my organization is so toxic, so many people really are right now, and that is a global issue, facing toxicity in the organization.

So how can you drive execution when people feel like it's a toxic environment working there? The only way to do it is by compliance. They will do, yes, boss, I will do that, I will do that setup. But that's not commitment, that is compliance. And that doesn't lead to powerful execution. Because people are not engaged.

00:15:49 Speaker 2

Now, you recently launched WCL21, a new CEO ecosystem. What inspired you to create it and what do you see as its unique role in the leadership space?

00:16:03 Speaker 1

Yeah, that connects perfectly with what I said before in terms of what is emerging from these conversations. From my work one-to-one with CEOs, it is the fact that they feel really isolated. They don't feel like they can speak openly and transparently with everybody. Not because they don't trust people, it's just because you can't say anything You want, and that's one thing.

The second thing is, these CEOs are all people that are very well educated. They are people that maybe they went to the business school. They had 30 years of experience or whatever. They know their stuff. They know what is required. But the challenge they have, given that they're living most of their time in the corporate, in their company, what is missing for them is what is happening in other organizations? What are other CEOs doing here and there?

Given that they're facing similar issues, how can they deal with X and Y and Z?

The reason I created this is to give them an opportunity to come together, learn from me, from my spirit, but most importantly, learn from each other and say,

What are insights? What are some new ideas I did not consider before? So that's another element.

Second, it's about not feeling isolated. They have now finally an inner circle they can talk to open and responded because there are no repercussions, there is no judgment, there's no implication on the organization. So, these are the two major elements.

And the third element is creating networking relationships. People want to really create a relationship for long. I've seen leaders spending time together and then staying forever as a friend, et cetera. I think it’s an opportunity for a group of leaders, selected primarily from mid-sized to large organizations.

They are not served traditionally in either way because the founder environment, they have a lot of opportunities to connect with each other. The VCs, the incubator, the accelerator, whatever. The large company, they have primarily given a fortune company, they have a lot of support as a CEO. A lot of support. But there is a huge, huge, number of leaders living in between. They don't have that level of support, assistance, sounding board, inner circle. So WCL21 is going to tackle that specific issue and show up will be a number of different ways for people, leaders, to connect with each other. One is the podcast. One is there will be CEO roundtables. There will be a retreat. There will be company visits, maybe, I don't know, in China or Japan to learn from other companies. It's a number of different opportunities for people to learn, get connected, work together. So that is the scope of WCL 21. And WCL stands for World Class Leader, which is connected with the podcast name.

00:19:08 Speaker 2

How do you balance being a trusted coach behind the scenes with building a visible platform like WCL for leaders through your podcast and community? I understand it's a lot of work, and like you mentioned, the vision is very broad. How do you balance this?

00:19:30 Speaker 1

It's a good point. I also work with a consulting company in the US, one of the leading companies in the space of mindset and leadership performance called J&W. And that takes a lot of my time because that's what I spend time with, working with CEOs and their leaders. It's all about sanity, mental sanity. Make sure that you do what matters. You do what makes impact and you do what you are committed to in the first place.

I'm committed to help CEOs to leave an extraordinary legacy. That's what I'm committed to. So whatever work that is inside of that commitment, I'm very happy to make it, to do it.

While if I see people that are not committed, people that not want to be a legacy, want to drive maybe improvements tomorrow morning, I'm not interested. That's not what the work I do. And again, look at the WCL 21, the podcast, that is to me is a way to serve a community. I value spending time with a community versus just working with CEOs one to one. So, it's finding a balance, but the whole thing's connected to my vision of leaving a legacy for people. It's all connected. It sounds like a lot of work, but it's fun. It's amazing. That's what I'm enjoying doing because I know that matters to people.

00:21:04 Speaker 2

Coming to CEOs, what misconceptions do people have about the role of a CEO and how does that impact how they lead or fail to lead their teams?

00:21:18 Speaker 1

I think primarily the biggest misconception is that people feel that the CEO has all the answers. But CEOs don't have all the answers. They have no answer at all sometimes. And I think that is building an unnecessary expectation for them, unnecessary pressure for themselves because they feel like they need to have an answer. To me, this is one of the biggest misconceptions.

Second is, many CEOs are dealing physically and mentally with health more than people think. Just last year, just for giving context, a lot of CEOs in the US, they left their jobs. There was a big, big shift in the industry. They left their job primarily because they can't cope with the pressure, with the stress that's coming with the role.

The misconception is, people feel CEOs, they always come, they're having a great life, they're enjoying what they're doing, they're going to big, massive PR conference events, private jet, whatever. The reality is very, very different. If that is true for a few CEOs, most of CEOs, they're dealing with the reality of how can I get my business going?

How can I get my companies to the next level?

How can I meet the board expectations?

All of that. If you consider that has an impact and that's the third misconception on their confidence. The misconception is CEOs are very confident, and they know always what to do. They don't. They don't because they're not different than anybody else. But again, it's a misconception. When I work with CEOs, we really work around these three areas with them, but also with their teams, because the teams need to appreciate it that if that is the situation, they need to step up. They need to step up in support of CEO versus just waiting and reacting to what the CEO wants to do or what decision he makes, because they might be wrong. So, again, it's taking ownership and responsibility. Don't let the CEO take it entirely.

00:23:43 Speaker 2

So, looking ahead, what skills or qualities will CEOs need the most to thrive in the next decade?

00:23:53 Speaker 1

This is a good question. I think for me it would be the ability to live in the ambiguity that is coming to them. Meaning not always having the perfect solution, not having the perfect information in the market, not understanding what's going to happen tomorrow, not in six months, but even tomorrow. So how can you lead an organization into the future with a level of uncertainty? And to me, that is mastery. It requires mastery in a way how you lead yourself first and how you lead your people. And some leaders, they really fail in that because they can’t see something as a possibility, until things get clear. And that leads into a little bit of paralysis analysis, not being destructive, working on a status quo, all of the things that are not producing a very, very compelling future. To me, dealing with ambiguity, dealing with uncertainty, be really agile mentally about what is required. There's no agility in the process. It's agility mentally how to make that happen. And then really be a great people leader, somebody who really cares about your people because you will never get far without them.

00:25:24 Speaker 2

For our listeners who aspire to become CEOs, future leaders or better leaders, what's one piece of advice you'd give them to start applying right now?

00:25:40 Speaker 1

I would say the most important thing for me is start challenging your experience. Start challenging what you went through. Start challenging everything that is coming your way. Because if you start challenging your own thinking, you can immediately start to see something different for yourself. And that's something that doesn't happen often, especially with a very senior CEOs. Unfortunately, they live with the perception that they know everything, that they know exactly how to do X, Y, Z. That's to me is a sign of over confidence. That is one of the most challenging and risky blind spots that the leader can have. Because whenever I hear a leader say, I know this, I know how to do it. I'm starting to be worried. Because that implies that they are not seeing potential blind spots in the world and there is no blind spot, there are no gaps. Something is missing. I can't believe that people don't live in a gap. Everybody from the president of a big country to an employee in the front line, everybody has a gap in their self. Without gaps, there is no improvement. There's no opportunity to make something different. So those leaders, they live with that ego. and with a level of certainty about their selves. To me, it's a risky business for themselves.

00:27:28 Speaker 2

Right. And this brings us to the end of another insightful episode of the E-Learning Champion Podcast. By recognizing CEO's challenges and priorities, L&D teams can create training programs that enhance agility, drive performance, and support strategic execution. We've covered a lot today from having how to tackle lack of clarity and getting to frame ourselves into the CEO mindset. Thank you, Andrea, for sharing your thoughts and insights with us.

00:28:00 Speaker 1

Thank you, Sherna, for inviting me. I hope that was useful. And of course, please follow me on LinkedIn and follow the World Class Leader Show. Subscribe, it's on YouTube, it's on Apple, Spotify, whatever works for you as a format. But just do it because I think you will be inspired by these conversations.

00:28:16 Speaker 2

Absolutely. I'm sure our listeners will take you, World Class Leader Show. That's the podcast name to search for. Remember, becoming an e-learning champion is a journey of continuous learning and sharing. So do take a moment to share, follow, comment, and connect with us on a platform of your choice.

Find CommLab India on LinkedIn for the latest trends and insights on all things e-learning. Thank you so much for tuning in to the e-learning champion podcast. Keep innovating, keep inspiring, and keep championing.