From ICE to EV: Global Sales Leadership Lessons in the Age of Automotive Transformation

00:00:10 RK Prasad

So welcome to the eLearning Champion Podcast.

00:00:15 RK Prasad

Today's episode title is From Ice to EV: Global Sales Leadership Lessons in the Age of Automation Transformation with Akli Aggoune, Vice President, Sales and Strategy, Borg Warner.

00:00:22 RK Prasad

Today I am joined by Akli.

00:00:26 RK Prasad

who is the Vice President of Global Sales and Strategy for Power Drive Systems at Borg Warner.

00:00:32 RK Prasad

With over 12 years experience at Bog Warner and a career spanning Europe and North America, Accley had led multi billion dollar sales organizations through one of the most transformative shifts in automotive history from internal combustion engines ice.

00:00:54 RK Prasad

To hybrid and fully electric vehicles.

00:00:57 RK Prasad

In this conversation, we will explore how to lead global sales teams through massive technological and organizational change, build high performing cultures, and develop people at scale.

00:01:11 RK Prasad

So whether you are in L&D leadership or management transformation in your own industry, I'm sure you'll walk away with.

00:01:21 RK Prasad

Very practical, real world insights that you can apply immediately.

00:01:28 RK Prasad

And now let us learn from the expert.

00:01:31 RK Prasad

Akali, welcome once again to the show.

00:01:35 Akli Aggoune

Thanks for having me.

00:01:38 RK Prasad

So shall I start with our first question, which is just a background question?

00:01:44 RK Prasad

You spent more than 12 years at Bog Warner, moving from sales director in Europe to leading North America and now global sales strategy for Power Drive Systems.

00:01:54 RK Prasad

What initially drew you to the automotive world and how has your engineering background influenced the way you approached sales leadership and business transformation today?

00:02:08 Akli Aggoune

Well, my father was working in the auto industry.

00:02:13 Akli Aggoune

So I got to do an internship very early when I was younger.

00:02:19 Akli Aggoune

And yeah, I think that influenced my choice to work in the auto industry.

00:02:25 Akli Aggoune

So the engineering degree that I selected was really preparing me really well for working in that industry.

00:02:34 Akli Aggoune

So that that would be probably why I selected that.

00:02:39 Akli Aggoune

And in the second part of the question.

00:02:42 Akli Aggoune

I really think my engineering background shaped the way I approach my whole career, particularly in sales.

00:02:52 Akli Aggoune

I'm I'm more of a structured leader, very organized and and you know, logical.

00:03:01 Akli Aggoune

So whatever I I I do, it's it's usually always follows certain logic.

00:03:11 Akli Aggoune

And this probably comes from my engineering background, right?

00:03:15 RK Prasad

So because you have come from a quantitative engineering background, you're a logical thinker.

00:03:23 RK Prasad

But I was just wondering, actually, that why didn't you go into the design and production side of it?

00:03:29 RK Prasad

Why did you come into marketing and sales, which is more people oriented?

00:03:37 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, that's correct.

00:03:37 Akli Aggoune

Actually, I so I started as an engineer my career and after a couple of years, my company, my first company pulled me into the sales role, which initially I didn't necessarily want to do.

00:03:54 Akli Aggoune

Okay.

00:03:54 Akli Aggoune

But the company felt that I was a good fit for the job.

00:03:59 Akli Aggoune

As an engineer, I was working closely with sales.

00:04:03 Akli Aggoune

I was working with sales to define the next generation products.

00:04:08 Akli Aggoune

So I was exposed to that side of the business and I was, you know, early in my career and I thought it was at the end, a great idea to try it out and see if that works.

00:04:21 Akli Aggoune

And if it didn't, I still had a chance to come back to engineering.

00:04:25 Akli Aggoune

Right.

00:04:26 Akli Aggoune

And finally, finally, it worked well and I stayed in sales for the rest of my career.

00:04:31 RK Prasad

Right.

00:04:32 RK Prasad

I was going through it and you were a very high level salesperson handling key accounts and major accounts and which happened to be very large companies, you know, Fortune 5 companies like Reno, Nissan and Mitsubishi and companies like that.

00:04:50 RK Prasad

So what do you think is your unique strength in sales?

00:04:54 Akli Aggoune

So sales in the auto industry as a tier one is very different from other companies.

00:05:00 Akli Aggoune

We have a limited number of customers.

00:05:02 Akli Aggoune

We serve mainly the OEMs.

00:05:05 Akli Aggoune

So we work with all major OEMs.

00:05:09 Akli Aggoune

So it's you're going to have a number of key relationships to manage.

00:05:16 Akli Aggoune

Right.

00:05:16 Akli Aggoune

I would say the unique.

00:05:23 Akli Aggoune

The most important thing in this job is building relationships with the key people that you need to work with and you or you're targeting to work with, building the trust because in the end humans are going to make the decisions.

00:05:42 Akli Aggoune

So if you have that trust established, you know, if you are authentic, if you are honest, not always.

00:05:51 Akli Aggoune

Try to oversell what you can offer, what your company can offer.

00:05:56 Akli Aggoune

That's how you build trust.

00:05:57 Akli Aggoune

If you deliver on your commitments, that's how you build trust.

00:06:01 Akli Aggoune

And over over time, people tend to be willing to work with your company because because they feel they have the truth coming from you and they they know what's going on in your company and they understand who they they're selecting as a as a partner.

00:06:19 RK Prasad

Right.

00:06:20 RK Prasad

So you you are you're a first rate engineer as well as a first rate salesperson.

00:06:26 RK Prasad

Which do you take more pride in?

00:06:37 Akli Aggoune

I take more pride in being having been able to find my path, you know, starting from one.

00:06:50 Akli Aggoune

one field engineering and moving to another one out of out of the blue, let's say.

00:06:56 Akli Aggoune

And yeah, I take pride of, you know, having been able to change my path and found really a path that fits me and that I really enjoy working in and love working in.

00:07:11 RK Prasad

Right.

00:07:12 RK Prasad

So one last question here is that how much did your engineering degree

00:07:19 RK Prasad

is helping you in meeting customers' needs and building trust, as you said.

00:07:32 Akli Aggoune

I don't see a direct link between my engineering degree and building trust with customers.

00:07:40 Akli Aggoune

I think all those skills, I I've redeveloped them in the job and not in my degree.

00:07:48 Akli Aggoune

Of course, you always develop communication skills, whatever degree that you follow.

00:07:56 Akli Aggoune

But I would say most of what I'm I practice today and I continue to practice and learn is based on my experience.

00:08:06 RK Prasad

Right.

00:08:07 RK Prasad

So you really don't need to be using your engineering knowledge here.

00:08:14 RK Prasad

But it is more like people's skills and people's knowledge.

00:08:18 Akli Aggoune

Well, we sell highly complex products.

00:08:21 Akli Aggoune

So I would say if you are an engineer, it helps you articulate better.

00:08:32 Akli Aggoune

What's your unique value proposition or what are the advantages of that technological solution versus the other?

00:08:41 Akli Aggoune

I would say directly it helps, but.

00:08:44 Akli Aggoune

that can be developed even if people don't come from sales, they can also deliver on that part of the job as well.

00:08:53 RK Prasad

So probably it will also help you to understand their requirements because they talk the technical language.

00:09:00 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, that's true.

00:09:01 Akli Aggoune

Yeah.

00:09:02 Akli Aggoune

System level constraints that they have.

00:09:06 Akli Aggoune

And yes, absolutely, you're making a good point.

00:09:09 RK Prasad

Yeah, thank you.

00:09:11 RK Prasad

So let us move on to the next question.

00:09:13 RK Prasad

Which is about the major shift in the automobile industry.

00:09:19 RK Prasad

You have been at the forefront of transition from internal combustion engines to hybrid and full electric vehicles.

00:09:26 RK Prasad

What were the biggest challenges you faced when leading sales teams and customer strategy through this massive industry transformation?

00:09:40 Akli Aggoune

The real heavy part was the product strategy.

00:09:45 Akli Aggoune

It's been a very intense period of time working on redefining the strategy.

00:09:52 Akli Aggoune

Where do we want to play?

00:09:55 Akli Aggoune

Where are we best fit in?

00:09:57 Akli Aggoune

You know, you take all those inputs from your customers and all the trends and the signals and you feel where is this going.

00:10:04 Akli Aggoune

You also need to collect that.

00:10:06 Akli Aggoune

information from the organization, just not it's not just not me.

00:10:11 Akli Aggoune

It's really make sure different people in the organization who are in touch with the market, in engineering, in sales, you connect with them, you organize information and from there you analyze what are your best, where is your value, what where is your right to play?

00:10:35 Akli Aggoune

And, you know, and you just connect right to play in the market and then you make the right decisions.

00:10:43 Akli Aggoune

And those decisions are made at the top.

00:10:45 Akli Aggoune

So also requires a lot of alignment with senior leadership functions.

00:10:54 Akli Aggoune

And I would say that that's been the heaviest part of the job.

00:10:58 Akli Aggoune

And then from there, once you have a full alignment, we have a right strategy, we know where we're going to play, where we're going to win.

00:11:06 Akli Aggoune

Then it's about how do you win and how do you win?

00:11:10 Akli Aggoune

This is discussed also a lot with sales and engineering.

00:11:14 Akli Aggoune

You know what type of actions we put in place to execute the strategy.

00:11:20 Akli Aggoune

So I would say defining strategy is was the heaviest part.

00:11:25 Akli Aggoune

Then once once you was defined execution part, I would say is more.

00:11:33 Akli Aggoune

traditional is not necessarily unique to that particular phase of the business.

00:11:40 RK Prasad

Right.

00:11:42 RK Prasad

So was putting together the product strategy more difficult or selling it to the top management that we have to make this shift was more difficult?

00:12:03 Akli Aggoune

No, I would say really defining the strategy was a real challenge, right?

00:12:09 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, because this you had constraints coming from everywhere.

00:12:17 Akli Aggoune

The biggest challenge I think was the maturity of the products on electric vehicles is not as high as in combustion engines, which means correct you still have major.

00:12:31 Akli Aggoune

Innovations, major improvements to make on the products to deliver higher efficiency and especially lower costs because there's a real affordability issue in electric vehicles.

00:12:47 Akli Aggoune

And to do that, you need to invest heavily in engineering and innovation, product innovation and.

00:12:57 Akli Aggoune

At the same time, we were hit by real crisis where, you know, all the programs we had launched and, you know, the market has invested in the technology, but the volumes didn't come.

00:13:10 Akli Aggoune

So you have those 2 situations where if you want to remain relevant, you have to continue to invest.

00:13:17 Akli Aggoune

How do you balance the short term, the long term really is a tough questions, tough question.

00:13:25 Akli Aggoune

And then.

00:13:26 Akli Aggoune

With the process that we put in place, it's again, a logical process, organized, structured, selling it is not about selling it, is about presenting it, is about bringing the clarity about, you know, everybody being on the same page and then making decision is, you know, my team makes a recommendation in alignment with engineering and sales and then.

00:13:55 Akli Aggoune

And then the senior leadership, the top management reviews and we align together, you know, where, what do we want to do?

00:14:05 Akli Aggoune

What are the pros and cons?

00:14:06 Akli Aggoune

And I don't think the alignment is not the tough part here, especially in our culture of collaboration.

00:14:15 Akli Aggoune

And I think everything is transparent, all information is shared, so it's not the tough part.

00:14:23 RK Prasad

OK, one very quick question here.

00:14:26 RK Prasad

This internal combustion engine, if I know I'm a layperson, it has been there for 100 years, right?

00:14:38 Akli Aggoune

Sorry, could you say it again?

00:14:39 Akli Aggoune

I didn't hear the beginning of your question.

00:14:41 RK Prasad

Sorry, I said this ice model, that internal combustion engine.

00:14:48 RK Prasad

Yeah, OK, was there for the last 100 years, right.

00:14:51 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, that's correct.

00:14:52 Akli Aggoune

Yes.

00:14:53 RK Prasad

So what is one main trigger which moved the industry towards electric?

00:15:04 RK Prasad

One main trigger.

00:15:06 Akli Aggoune

The main trigger was the environmental concerns around emissions in general, I would say Co 2 in particular.

00:15:19 Akli Aggoune

Yeah.

00:15:20 RK Prasad

Right.

00:15:20 RK Prasad

OK, great.

00:15:23 RK Prasad

So, emissions, yeah, go ahead, please.

00:15:28 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, emissions in cities is going to be different harmful emissions for it's been, it's become a public health issues in issue in big cities.

00:15:38 Akli Aggoune

And globally, you have the whole, you know, global warming concern that really triggered the political decisions.

00:15:49 Akli Aggoune

and.

00:15:50 Akli Aggoune

and any industry to develop zero emission technologies and BEV battery electric vehicles are today the best fit for zero emission vehicles.

00:16:07 RK Prasad

So the UN goals of sustainability has a direct impact on the government and thereby.

00:16:15 RK Prasad

Okay, correct.

00:16:18 RK Prasad

One other question, you talked about emissions and this obviously will bring down the emissions to almost zero.

00:16:28 RK Prasad

But what do you think about the pollution caused by the batteries?

00:16:38 Akli Aggoune

So when you look at the big picture, you know, energy is coming from the battery.

00:16:49 Akli Aggoune

The batteries themselves, the production, if you take what we call well to wheel, which means a full cycle, the emissions of how you produce the batteries, then how you assemble them in the vehicle, and then you compare that to the full cycle with an ICE vehicle, it's still going to be much more favorable with the BEV than with the ICE vehicle.

00:17:17 Akli Aggoune

OK, so even including the battery from the raw materials as well, it's still, it's still much more beneficial when it comes to Co 2 emissions?

00:17:34 RK Prasad

So you think that very soon the industrial combustion engines will just you know, become obsolete?

00:17:43 Akli Aggoune

No, well, first of all, nobody knows, but it's very unlikely that ice engines will become obsolete anytime soon.

00:17:52 Akli Aggoune

And you know, especially if you think of it globally, you're going to have different paces in different regions.

00:18:01 Akli Aggoune

Get it going to zero emissions, zero emission vehicles everywhere is not going to happen.

00:18:09 Akli Aggoune

Until I would say, I wouldn't give you a date, but long, long time.

00:18:15 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, every region is going to transition at their pace.

00:18:18 Akli Aggoune

And it's not necessarily a transition.

00:18:20 Akli Aggoune

Actually, some regions may never transition 200%.

00:18:26 Akli Aggoune

So it might be just a change, but not necessarily a tradition from zero to 100.

00:18:35 RK Prasad

Right.

00:18:35 RK Prasad

OK, that makes sense.

00:18:37 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:18:38 RK Prasad

So let us move on to the next question, which is more in our realm of training and development and people.

00:18:48 RK Prasad

You talked about restructuring organizations, modeling business processes and sizing up people.

00:18:57 RK Prasad

Can you share a specific example of how you redesigned a sales organization or a commercial approach to stay ahead during the shift to electrification?

00:19:11 Akli Aggoune

So when it comes to sizing up people, so we work with you on that great initiative, the personal development maps, right?

00:19:21 Akli Aggoune

So that again organized approach to personal development help us understand.

00:19:30 Akli Aggoune

Where are the areas that we want?

00:19:35 Akli Aggoune

To develop collectively in the sales function within the company.

00:19:39 Akli Aggoune

So so it's really, it really helped us identify where do we need like fundamental the fundamental push.

00:19:49 Akli Aggoune

So we elevate, we size up the whole organization at once.

00:19:54 Akli Aggoune

So one of the areas that we looked at was customer relationship management, customer relationship building and development.

00:20:04 Akli Aggoune

We felt like in these particular times of uncertainty, we went through really tough times.

00:20:11 Akli Aggoune

At the end, the most important thing, and I think I mentioned it earlier, is really having the right relationships in place and making sure we proactively build them and advance them.

00:20:26 RK Prasad

Did you have any challenge in change management?

00:20:29 RK Prasad

Like they were doing a particular kind of

00:20:34 RK Prasad

Sale based on certain relationships and certain products.

00:20:39 RK Prasad

Now that it is going to a new this thing and as you said, customers may ask tough questions saying that we have used this, but you know, it is not giving us enough traction in the market.

00:20:52 RK Prasad

So these people have to, you know, really become more like, you know, consultants and.

00:21:02 RK Prasad

guide guides and stuff like that.

00:21:06 RK Prasad

So there must be a lot of resistance to the new methods and new new markets, new requirements.

00:21:14 RK Prasad

So was there a change management problem?

00:21:19 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, making a very good point.

00:21:22 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, you you will always have people who need more time to adopt a change and first to embrace the change, right?

00:21:32 Akli Aggoune

So yeah, managing changes is really part of the success.

00:21:38 Akli Aggoune

I would say how well you manage the change.

00:21:42 Akli Aggoune

I would say in general, my company, we are, I think overall very agile and overall compared to other other companies, people are used to change and they just it's just part of.

00:22:01 Akli Aggoune

Part of what we've been doing even before this electrification, these electrification challenges.

00:22:09 Akli Aggoune

But still, despite that, it takes active leadership, you know, and strong focus on change management.

00:22:19 Akli Aggoune

When.

00:22:20 Akli Aggoune

So one thing that is really, really key, crucial for sales is when you when you.

00:22:27 Akli Aggoune

Explain when you roll out, let's say, a change in strategy, change in the approach, say before we were doing this and now we're going to do that.

00:22:37 Akli Aggoune

And we before we were doing this, now we're going to stop or we're going to start something new.

00:22:42 Akli Aggoune

And even sometimes we had to change, you know, more than once a year, the same strategy changed because because just the market was so volatile.

00:22:51 Akli Aggoune

We had to react and go fast and make sure we remain relevant and fit.

00:22:58 Akli Aggoune

So the most important thing is that when you do that is to explain why.

00:23:02 Akli Aggoune

So if you just say go do it, you know, then you may trigger some resistance and people are going to adopt and I'm going to criticise and why do we do this?

00:23:15 Akli Aggoune

And that makes no sense.

00:23:17 Akli Aggoune

Six months ago we were doing this, now we want to do this and you know, you can trigger a lot of.

00:23:24 Akli Aggoune

A lot of question and anxiety.

00:23:28 Akli Aggoune

So before you say we're going to do this, you say, OK, here is what's what's happening.

00:23:34 Akli Aggoune

Here is the vision, the new vision.

00:23:38 Akli Aggoune

And based on that, we did that type of analysis and we checked those options, A, B, C, D and you know, and you go through that process that you've been through.

00:23:51 Akli Aggoune

And you share with some transparency.

00:23:53 Akli Aggoune

Of course, you can't share the massive amount of details that is behind, but there's a lot of work, by the way, in simplifying complex analysis.

00:24:03 Akli Aggoune

But then you share that simplified version of it.

00:24:07 Akli Aggoune

And, you know, people say, oh, okay, I get it.

00:24:09 Akli Aggoune

So we looked at that, we looked at that and, you know, and then I understand why we went there, why we want to do this.

00:24:19 Akli Aggoune

And sometimes some people may think option B or C or was better, more relevant, but at the end, they trust that there is more information that is behind that they don't know.

00:24:29 Akli Aggoune

And that that justifies why we picked that particular strategy.

00:24:36 Akli Aggoune

And I think as soon as you spend enough time for that, people feel like, okay, now let's talk about how we win.

00:24:46 Akli Aggoune

Like I said earlier, how do we, how do we make it work, right?

00:24:49 Akli Aggoune

And then it's like it's like the one team approach, you know, we need as a as a team.

00:24:55 Akli Aggoune

And when I say team is not just sales, especially sales and engineering together going to the market.

00:25:03 Akli Aggoune

And yeah.

00:25:05 Akli Aggoune

embracing, embracing it because they figured out.

00:25:09 Akli Aggoune

The other aspect is also when you go through that whole process of data collection, we try to involve as many people as possible.

00:25:16 Akli Aggoune

So they feel like they also had a chance to voice their view of where the market is going and where we need to, what we need to do, where we need to play and all those things.

00:25:29 Akli Aggoune

So if you have more of them involved early in the process,

00:25:34 Akli Aggoune

When the whole process develops and when we come to a conclusion, they feel, you know, they probably feel they're going to embrace the change.

00:25:46 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, they're part of the definition and they're going to embrace the change faster and better.

00:25:54 RK Prasad

Fantastic.

00:25:55 RK Prasad

I think I could glean 3 lessons here.

00:25:58 RK Prasad

The first and the foremost thing is you must make the effort and spend the time

00:26:04 RK Prasad

To explain why.

00:26:08 RK Prasad

So the second thing is that even though they may see some other option as a better option, they need to trust the company and the management that they have better reasons which they cannot share, obviously for different purposes, different reasons.

00:26:28 RK Prasad

So yeah, we trust them.

00:26:31 RK Prasad

So maybe.

00:26:33 RK Prasad

That is a better option.

00:26:35 RK Prasad

So I will accept it.

00:26:38 RK Prasad

But more importantly, what's resonated in me is what you said at the end.

00:26:43 RK Prasad

That is even while data collection, even before you decide what to change and why to change when you're collecting the data itself involve as many people as possible or key people.

00:26:59 Akli Aggoune

No, I would say really as many people as possible because diversity of opinions, you know, brings a lot of value, especially, you know, we're talking about global strategy.

00:27:13 Akli Aggoune

So you're going to have very different markets, different views, you know, people thinking differently.

00:27:20 Akli Aggoune

And sometimes you might have people who have that bright.

00:27:24 Akli Aggoune

vision or clear vision and you need to make sure they can voice it.

00:27:32 Akli Aggoune

So you know there is a that type of open process bottom up that is part of our of the way we drive the strategy.

00:27:45 RK Prasad

So by doing so you are preempting resistance to change.

00:27:52 RK Prasad

By being very transparent and also making them a part of the whole process.

00:28:00 Akli Aggoune

Yes, exactly.

00:28:03 RK Prasad

OK, actually I am coming to the next question, which is global leadership and teams.

00:28:11 RK Prasad

So here you led teams across Europe and North America, across diverse cultures and markets.

00:28:20 RK Prasad

So when we look at a global team, the need to be aligned and motivated and at a high performance level during these rapid changes, what were some observations or lessons you learned which you can share with my audience?

00:28:43 RK Prasad

Global workforce alignment and performance.

00:28:54 Akli Aggoune

I really feel, especially today, actually, we have some different dynamics in the different regions, right?

00:29:04 Akli Aggoune

And you have China that is already pretty much into the electrification and going really, really fast.

00:29:13 Akli Aggoune

And then you're going to have Europe that is

00:29:16 Akli Aggoune

accelerating and is going to become a huge market as well, very likely, and then the North America that is much lower.

00:29:27 Akli Aggoune

In that context, global alignment brings so much power and strength to the people, especially those who are not sitting in China.

00:29:37 Akli Aggoune

They need they need to understand what's happening in China and they need to talk to their Chinese colleagues.

00:29:44 Akli Aggoune

So.

00:29:45 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, I would say that's why we have those global roles in the first place because we are highly regionalized, you know, tailored to the local customer needs and so on.

00:29:56 Akli Aggoune

But we need a couple of global roles to make sure we really transfer, you know, the knowledge and even the know how from a region to the other.

00:30:07 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, so best practice sharing.

00:30:11 Akli Aggoune

And right now it's really a lot about transferring what China does outside of China, the way they the way they can deliver so fast, how do they do it right?

00:30:21 Akli Aggoune

And actually, it was my first my first big question myself when I took the role was like, how do they do that?

00:30:29 Akli Aggoune

You know, I don't understand.

00:30:31 Akli Aggoune

And I spent time in China and I asked a lot of questions, basic questions.

00:30:35 Akli Aggoune

OK, but how do you do it practically?

00:30:37 Akli Aggoune

How do you?

00:30:38 Akli Aggoune

Like, how do you deliver the same inverter program in one year in China when it takes three years in the US, you know?

00:30:49 Akli Aggoune

Yeah.

00:30:49 Akli Aggoune

And you know how and you got to get into the details and understand and you find out, okay, it's not just us, it's a whole industry.

00:30:57 Akli Aggoune

So it's, you know, the customer is also very, very different, very much more pragmatic.

00:31:02 Akli Aggoune

The specifications are.

00:31:04 Akli Aggoune

You know, 10 times thinner in China than they are.

00:31:08 Akli Aggoune

So there's a lot of there are a lot of differences in the end, but transferring those practices.

00:31:17 Akli Aggoune

You can collect those that are applicable in other regions.

00:31:21 Akli Aggoune

You know what I mean?

00:31:22 Akli Aggoune

Some of that you cannot apply them because if your customer is different, you can't necessarily behave the same the same way.

00:31:29 Akli Aggoune

But.

00:31:30 Akli Aggoune

But some of that you can actually do like being more pragmatic.

00:31:34 Akli Aggoune

Sometimes no overanalyzing is one of the one of the things when it comes to cost.

00:31:42 Akli Aggoune

You know, the approach to how do I get to the best cost is very different too.

00:31:46 Akli Aggoune

And it's all about risk taking and it's balancing the opportunity and the risk.

00:31:54 Akli Aggoune

When when it's a more of a tactical change or more of a

00:31:59 Akli Aggoune

A procedure like that region does it really well.

00:32:02 Akli Aggoune

They have like recently we had that situation where one of the regions took the initiative of setting up a call, like a monthly alignment call and they had that great format and it was really well executed.

00:32:15 Akli Aggoune

And I was like, oh, that's great, you know, it very works very well and you could see the participation, everybody participates and it was very effective and.

00:32:24 Akli Aggoune

So I just recorded that call and asked the person who took the initiative to spread, you know, the process that he put in place to the other regions and say, FYI, we do this here, have a look at that video and you know, just sharing how others are doing and and you know, every region can decide at some point how they how they want to drive and coordinate and align.

00:32:54 Akli Aggoune

We have some global processes, of course, that they have to follow with, you know, policy and but overall, how they want to communicate is really up to the region to decide.

00:33:06 Akli Aggoune

But sharing how others, you know, sharing the best practices through a video, a concrete example, is a good way of motivating the regions to embrace doing something differently.

00:33:22 RK Prasad

Great.

00:33:23 RK Prasad

So do you archive all these things and made available whenever it has to be referred to or training for new people or people who have moved into that saying that this is the best practice or this is how China has done it?

00:33:47 RK Prasad

Do you have an archive?

00:33:50 RK Prasad

a?

00:33:51 RK Prasad

you know, repository.

00:33:55 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, so that's what I call the process.

00:33:58 Akli Aggoune

So we have, we have like a procedure archive where we define what needs to be done globally and every region and every part of the company needs to follow.

00:34:17 Akli Aggoune

So as an example, before you submit a quotation to a customer, there needs to be a couple of steps and there needs to be some formal approvals and because you're engaging the company.

00:34:27 Akli Aggoune

So account managers cannot just go and send an offer that is not vetted and fully fully approved.

00:34:34 Akli Aggoune

So just that's just one example of those procedures that we have that apply to all of them, to all the to the whole company.

00:34:42 Akli Aggoune

So yeah, we have a couple of these.

00:34:44 Akli Aggoune

And it's always, again, the balance.

00:34:46 Akli Aggoune

You have to have those, but you also don't want that to be too heavy because you need speed.

00:34:51 Akli Aggoune

So we're optimising those all the time.

00:34:54 Akli Aggoune

It's part of the job in the VP of Sales.

00:34:59 RK Prasad

So these are all documented and archived and ready for use.

00:35:05 RK Prasad

But how exactly do you train people on processes?

00:35:11 Akli Aggoune

The way we do it is we.

00:35:14 Akli Aggoune

We, especially for major process changes, and we do, we do them almost every year because we continuously improving the standards.

00:35:25 Akli Aggoune

We run meetings where we present the changes in teams setting.

00:35:36 Akli Aggoune

You know, we do several of them.

00:35:37 Akli Aggoune

So we manage the different time zones and people being busy and so on.

00:35:41 Akli Aggoune

So we have to do several of them.

00:35:44 Akli Aggoune

And sometimes when the changes are major, we say, okay, it's a mandatory.

00:35:48 Akli Aggoune

So you have to select one of these sessions and you need to attend.

00:35:51 Akli Aggoune

And then we record on video.

00:35:54 Akli Aggoune

In those sessions, we we also keep a Q&A opportunity so people can ask questions, etcetera.

00:36:04 Akli Aggoune

And when it comes to.

00:36:09 Akli Aggoune

To a tool, like say when the change is not just a procedure, but also there's a tool that is changing that takes a little more time because people after the session needs to practice, right?

00:36:20 Akli Aggoune

And then they have more questions when they practice, right?

00:36:22 Akli Aggoune

So we have quite a few loops where we say, OK, this tool.

00:36:29 Akli Aggoune

Is introduced at that time and we have about 3 months and in 3 months it will become a mandatory tool.

00:36:35 Akli Aggoune

So people have a few months.

00:36:37 Akli Aggoune

To master get accommodated, to learn and after 3 months we terminate the former tool and I say 3 can be more depends on the on how big of a change it is.

00:36:47 Akli Aggoune

But so that's how we how we drive it.

00:36:51 RK Prasad

Did you consider changing it to a self learning module for future use?

00:37:00 Akli Aggoune

Indirectly it is a self learning module in the sense that the whole content that we present is.

00:37:08 Akli Aggoune

Usually would be like in a PowerPoint format, which has, you know, information showing how to do things and you know, schematics, visual.

00:37:18 Akli Aggoune

And then usually those documents are archived as part of the process.

00:37:23 Akli Aggoune

So you're going to have the process will be, let's say, maybe a document that describes formally a process and then you're going to have a a work instructions.

00:37:37 Akli Aggoune

Document that would be a PowerPoint that would be more, let's say you mentioned earlier you have a new hire.

00:37:44 Akli Aggoune

The new hire needs to understand what's expecting how to do things and that PowerPoint is going to be probably the first thing that that new hire will look at because it's it's visual simplified.

00:37:57 Akli Aggoune

And then once that power point is absorbed then they can go through the procedure itself that is more detailed and has more you know.

00:38:08 Akli Aggoune

precise, precise indications, right?

00:38:14 RK Prasad

So actually, I'll just take a little deviation.

00:38:17 RK Prasad

When we do a process training in ComLab, which you have done for many companies, we follow a method called watch, try and do.

00:38:26 RK Prasad

So the first 2 parts is what you have described.

00:38:31 RK Prasad

That is, we explain at.

00:38:34 RK Prasad

A higher level and a deeper level.

00:38:38 RK Prasad

And then we give them an opportunity to try.

00:38:45 RK Prasad

So we simulate that thing and it's more like learning by exploring.

00:38:52 RK Prasad

And then he goes to a piece where it is, there is no hint or there is no help, which is there in a try.

00:39:00 RK Prasad

So without any help.

00:39:02 RK Prasad

Is given an instruction to follow the process.

00:39:05 RK Prasad

So what should I do is a very, very good model.

00:39:08 RK Prasad

I just for your yeah, no, that's interesting.

00:39:12 Akli Aggoune

And what did you do then?

00:39:13 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, the 3rd one.

00:39:15 RK Prasad

What is the 3rd one they actually yeah, they actually do on the tool.

00:39:21 RK Prasad

OK or in the real environment?

00:39:26 Akli Aggoune

OK, understood.

00:39:27 RK Prasad

Yeah, yeah, so we'll be very happy to do you a prototype.

00:39:31 RK Prasad

Just give us one of those recorded things.

00:39:34 RK Prasad

Maybe for future you can find it useful.

00:39:37 Akli Aggoune

OK, yeah, absolutely we can look at that.

00:39:40 RK Prasad

Thank you.

00:39:41 RK Prasad

OK, the I think I will.

00:39:45 RK Prasad

Skip one question here and I will go to the last but one actionable advice for L&D leaders.

00:39:56 RK Prasad

Many L&D and management professionals listening today are responsible for preparing teams for similar transformations.

00:40:04 RK Prasad

If you were to design a learning program for global sales, technical customer facing, what are the 2 or 3 important things you keep in mind?

00:40:20 Akli Aggoune

Learning programs like a general learning programs, learning programs.

00:40:29 RK Prasad

But when we talk about this transformation and there is technology, there's a subject matter is technical.

00:40:41 Akli Aggoune

OK, let me think a little bit about that question.

00:40:49 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, because there are quite a few things.

00:40:52 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, first of all.

00:40:56 Akli Aggoune

The foundations, what I call the foundations in the sales role.

00:41:03 Akli Aggoune

You're going to have the foundations.

00:41:04 Akli Aggoune

Do do I have the right skills to deliver on expectations?

00:41:09 Akli Aggoune

And do I understand well the standard and the process and the how how am I expected to do things?

00:41:17 Akli Aggoune

So these are for me the foundations, which I call sales excellence.

00:41:23 Akli Aggoune

And continuous process management.

00:41:26 Akli Aggoune

So these are the 2 foundations.

00:41:32 Akli Aggoune

So if I think about a program, I would I would first focus on those foundations because then everything else depends on that.

00:41:44 RK Prasad

Right.

00:41:46 Akli Aggoune

Then the.

00:41:48 Akli Aggoune

The other aspect is the business and we talked about earlier, you know, understanding the market, understanding the strategy that the company is following and why.

00:41:59 Akli Aggoune

Okay, we talked about that.

00:42:03 Akli Aggoune

Once they have that, we which we transfer that into a what's what's a customer strategy.

00:42:11 Akli Aggoune

You know, once you know the product strategy, what's your customer strategy.

00:42:16 Akli Aggoune

So when we think about.

00:42:19 Akli Aggoune

Your question was around like aspects.

00:42:25 RK Prasad

Yeah.

00:42:25 RK Prasad

Do you keep in mind learning program?

00:42:27 Akli Aggoune

Yeah, it's it's really then OK, how do I translate the company strategy to a customer strategy?

00:42:35 Akli Aggoune

People would know very well the customer and and they have to define their own ways of doing things and align also with other people who work with the same customer.

00:42:48 Akli Aggoune

So for that piece, you're going to have really the global coordination and alignment aspect that is very critical, making sure for the same OEM, there is one way of doing things.

00:43:03 Akli Aggoune

You don't say China is going to have that strategy for that customer and for the same OEM in Europe.

00:43:13 Akli Aggoune

You know, Europe is going to have a different approach and strategy.

00:43:16 Akli Aggoune

And

00:43:17 Akli Aggoune

That just cannot work.

00:43:19 Akli Aggoune

So, okay, these are the few things that come to my mind.

00:43:26 RK Prasad

I have one question here.

00:43:28 RK Prasad

You have a diverse sales force across countries and across markets, and you also have different levels of experience and competence among your sales.

00:43:44 RK Prasad

So do you follow some kind of adaptive learning, meaning that if I know certain parts of the training, then I can skip and go to the next part?

00:43:56 RK Prasad

I mean, I don't waste time here.

00:43:59 RK Prasad

So is it customised to different levels of competence?

00:44:10 Akli Aggoune

Yes, it is.

00:44:11 Akli Aggoune

So.

00:44:13 Akli Aggoune

We don't have so many trainings that are mandatory for all.

00:44:17 Akli Aggoune

We don't have many of them.

00:44:18 Akli Aggoune

When we do, when we do a training that's mandatory for all, it's because there's something new that nobody's using like a new tool or a major change in the process that applies to everyone.

00:44:31 Akli Aggoune

But then the training plan is not is not collective in general.

00:44:37 Akli Aggoune

You have a few of them that are collective, like I said, the customer relationship management.

00:44:41 Akli Aggoune

But then most of them are not collective and they are on individual basis discussion with the manager.

00:44:49 Akli Aggoune

We use the personal development map and we understand where do I need training.

00:44:57 Akli Aggoune

And it's a discussion.

00:44:58 Akli Aggoune

I think I need training here.

00:44:59 Akli Aggoune

The manager will say, I think you need you may benefit from that training here.

00:45:04 Akli Aggoune

And then we come to a conclusion.

00:45:06 Akli Aggoune

OK, let's do this.

00:45:08 Akli Aggoune

So training is tailored.

00:45:10 Akli Aggoune

To the needs.

00:45:11 RK Prasad

Yeah, that's very smart way of doing it.

00:45:16 RK Prasad

So actually, I think we have just about 4 minutes left.

00:45:21 RK Prasad

So I would like to point out the takeaways for my audience.

00:45:28 RK Prasad

The first and the foremost thing which struck me as an L&D professional is how you manage change, which I found it to be very, very powerful.

00:45:39 RK Prasad

And very comprehensive, that is that involve all concerned as early as possible in the process and then get their buy in.

00:45:51 RK Prasad

And once they get the buy in, and then they themselves talk about how to do it.

00:45:58 RK Prasad

So that is one great thing.

00:46:00 RK Prasad

And the other thing which struck me is that when you design a training program.

00:46:09 RK Prasad

You talk about the market, you talk about the customer, you talk about the product strategy, how it needs to be translated.

00:46:18 RK Prasad

And there should be knowledge transfer from areas and markets which are doing well, which can be adapted or adopted as it is, as the case may be.

00:46:35 RK Prasad

So thank you very much.

00:46:38 RK Prasad

And if you wish to give one piece of advice to the L&D fraternity, what will that be?

00:46:52 Akli Aggoune

One advice for me is really focus on your foundations, you know, the foundations I talked about.

00:47:02 Akli Aggoune

And like everyday people are always

00:47:07 Akli Aggoune

tend to work on the most urgent aspects.

00:47:13 Akli Aggoune

But do you need to plan for whenever you have a chance and you don't have those urgencies that you need to plan for working on your foundations and working on the not urgent but very important things, right?

00:47:28 Akli Aggoune

And the balance in your days and your week.

00:47:32 Akli Aggoune

When am I going to do my training?

00:47:34 Akli Aggoune

When am I going to work on this and that aspect?

00:47:37 Akli Aggoune

And really, you need some planning and some scheduling because if you don't, then you're always going to look at your mailbox and follow what your customer wants you to do, what your management wants you to do.

00:47:49 Akli Aggoune

And then you you're missing your foundations.

00:47:51 Akli Aggoune

And with weak foundations, the house is not going to stand still.

00:47:54 Akli Aggoune

So that's my advice.

00:47:57 RK Prasad

Thank you very much, actually.

00:47:59 RK Prasad

We really appreciate your time.

00:48:01 RK Prasad

And great wisdom that you have shared with us.

00:48:04 RK Prasad

Thank you very much, have a great day.

00:48:06 Akli Aggoune

Thanks, was a pleasure.

00:48:07 RK Prasad

Bye bye.